Question regarding electrical potential energy required to assemble a system

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves calculating the total electrical potential energy required to assemble a system of four charges arranged at the corners of a square. The charges are alternating in sign, and the side length of the square is given. The original poster is seeking to understand the implications of their calculated energy value and the correctness of their approach.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the method of summing the potential energy contributions between each pair of charges and whether to count interactions between the same pair of charges more than once. There are questions about the implications of a negative energy value and the correctness of the formula used for calculations.

Discussion Status

Some participants confirm the original poster's understanding of the calculation method, while others provide feedback on potential errors in charge multiplication. The discussion reflects a collaborative effort to clarify the approach and ensure accuracy in the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of correctly accounting for units and factors in calculations, as well as the implications of the sign of the total energy in relation to the work done in assembling the charge system.

Parad0x88
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Homework Statement


Four charges, q1=+q, q2=-q, q3=+q and q4=*q are at the corners of a square with the side a=7.5 cm. (In such way that if one travels along the perimeter of the square, the charge signs are alternating.) If q=3.0 μC, what is the total energy required to assemble this system of charges? Comment on the sign of your answer.


Homework Equations


U = Ke ((q1q2/r12) + (q1q3/r13) + (q1q4/r14) + (q2q3/r23) and so forth)


The Attempt at a Solution


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I simply have to sum up the energy between the points one by one and multiply by Coulomb's constant, and it will give me the total potential energy?
 
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You got it.
 
Doc Al said:
You got it.

Thanks!

My question is: Would I need to calculate individually q1q4/r14 and q4q1/r41, or since they are the same I only do it once?
 
Parad0x88 said:
My question is: Would I need to calculate individually q1q4/r14 and q4q1/r41, or since they are the same I only do it once?
Count the potential energy between each pair of charges only once.
 
Ok, thank you!

And last but not least, if my energy is negative (I got -2,788,518 joules) that basically means that negative work is done when assembling the system to avoid that the charges will move toward each other?

And do you mind verifying my formula to make sure I didn't do anything wrong? I got an obscurely high number as an answer:

So like I had said: U = Ke ((q1q2/r12) + (q1q3/r13) + (q1q4/r14) + (q2q3/r23) + (q2q4/r24) + (q3q4/r34))

r12, r14, r23 and r34 are 0.075m
r13 and r24 are: √(0.0752 + 0.0752) = 0.106m

So I get:

U = Ke ((3 * -3/.075) + (3 * 3/.106) + (3 * -3/.075) + (-3 * 3/0.075) + (-3 * -3/.106) + (3 * -3/.075))

U = Ke ((4X (-9/.075)) + (2X (9/.106))

U = Ke ((4 X -120) + (2 X 84.91))

U = Ke(-310.18 μC2/m)

U = 8.99 X 109 Nm22/C2 X -310.18 μC2/m

U = -2,788,518.2 Nm, or joules
 
Parad0x88 said:
And last but not least, if my energy is negative (I got -2,788,518 joules) that basically means that negative work is done when assembling the system to avoid that the charges will move toward each other?
Right.

And do you mind verifying my formula to make sure I didn't do anything wrong? I got an obscurely high number as an answer:

So like I had said: U = Ke ((q1q2/r12) + (q1q3/r13) + (q1q4/r14) + (q2q3/r23) + (q2q4/r24) + (q3q4/r34))
Good.

r12, r14, r23 and r34 are 0.075m
r13 and r24 are: √(0.0752 + 0.0752) = 0.106m
Good.

I think you're failing to multiply the charges correctly and thus missing a factor of 10-6. For example:
q1*q2 = (3 x 10-6)*(-3 x 10-6) = -9 x 10-12
 
Last edited:
Doc Al said:
Right.


Good.


Good.

I think you're failing to multiply the charges correctly and thus missing a factor of 10-6. For example:
q1*q2 = (3 x 10-6)*(-3 x 10-6) = 9 x 10-12

Ah you're right! Rookie mistake of wanting to save some time and not writing the units hahah

Thank you very much!
 

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