Undergrad Questions about ensemble interpretation of QM

Click For Summary
The ensemble interpretation (EI) of quantum mechanics posits that the wavefunction describes an ensemble of identically prepared systems rather than individual particles, explaining phenomena like the double-slit experiment's interference pattern observed only after many trials. It views the wavefunction as a statistical tool rather than a physical entity, leading to questions about how individual particles adhere to these statistical rules and how measurements affect the system without invoking wavefunction collapse as a physical process. Instead, collapse is interpreted as an epistemic update reflecting gained knowledge from measurements. The discussion highlights that the distinction between EI and other interpretations, such as Copenhagen, largely revolves around differing philosophies of probability rather than fundamental differences in quantum mechanics itself. Further reading is suggested to deepen understanding of these concepts and their implications in quantum theory.
soothsayer
Messages
422
Reaction score
5
I've been reading up on the ensemble interpretation (aka statistical interpretation) of QM and it's making a bit more sense to me that it did on the onset, but I still have some questions about how it is consistent with experimental observations of various QM experiments, especially "single-particle" experiments.

My understanding is that the basic tenant of the ensemble interpretation (EI) is that the wavefunction is not a real physical entity, nor a property that describes a single particle/quantum state, but rather applies only to an "ensemble" of identically prepared systems. This explains why the interference pattern from the double-slit experiment can only be seen after many repetitions, for example (you cannot determine which pattern you are looking at from just a single result). By what mechanism does EI consider that individual particles obey the wavefunction of their respective "ensembles"? How does EI incorporate the impact of making measurements, if the wavefunction "collapse" is thought to be purely mathematical? By what mechanism does this occur, if not some sort of pilot wave theory? If the wavefunction cannot be applied to individual particles, what explains the quantum uncertainty of their position, momentum, etc? What does it mean for a particle to be in a superposition of various eigenstates?

Is there any reading you would recommend to help supplement my understanding of what ensemble interpretation advocates are trying to argue about the nature of the particle and the wavefunction in QM?

Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
soothsayer said:
Is there any reading you would recommend [...]
See my signature line below. :oldwink:

How does EI incorporate the impact of making measurements,
That's in ch9. (But if you search this forum for my older posts that mention Ballentine and apparatus, you'll find a brief summary.)

If the wavefunction cannot be applied to individual particles, what explains the quantum uncertainty of their position, momentum, etc?
This is best understood in terms of how one might (try to) prepare a single particle of exact position and momentum.
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71
There's not much to add to @strangerep 's answer.

I want just say that in my opinion, what's called "collapse" is simply the epistemic update of the description due to gained knowledge from a measurement. It's like knowing on Saturday evening which numbers came out from the drawing of the numbers in the lotery. Before, unfortunately I couldn't know them but only guess a probability for getting a lot of money out of the gamble (an this makes me rather save my money ;-))). Afterwards I know these numbers. All of a sudden the probability description "collapsed" to firm knowledge about the outcome of this "(random) experiment".
 
  • Like
Likes DarMM
soothsayer said:
My understanding is that the basic tenant of the ensemble interpretation (EI) is that the wavefunction is not a real physical entity
This is common to all Copenhagen-like views. Everything I say here applies to all Copenhagen views except for one very small bit.

soothsayer said:
By what mechanism does EI consider that individual particles obey the wavefunction of their respective "ensembles"?
The wavefunction describe the statistics of observations on them. QM doesn't give a mechanism beyond this.

soothsayer said:
How does EI incorporate the impact of making measurements, if the wavefunction "collapse" is thought to be purely mathematical? By what mechanism does this occur
@vanhees71 describes this very well.

soothsayer said:
What does it mean for a particle to be in a superposition of various eigenstates?
It's just a form of statistics not commonly found in classical probability. I'd have a look though at this paper:
https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0401052There you get superpositions even in a classical theory. Again just as an alternate form of statistics. What really differentiates classical and quantum probability is something called contextuality. This model doesn't replicate contextuality. In fact that's the point of the model to show what features are truly quantum.

The only real difference between the ensemble interpretation and other Copenhagen views is purely a difference in what you think about probability.

Probability theory tells us that if a coin has a 60% chance of landing heads (biased coin) then:
(a) If it happens once and you can buy a ticket that will give you $1 if you win, then the rational thing to do is to pay $0.60
(b) An ensemble of flipped coins in the limit as the ensemble gets larger will have a ratio of 0.6 between heads and the total coin flips.

Some people take (a) to be the more fundamental meaning, known as Bayesians. Others take (b) to be the more fundamental meaning, known as Frequentists. Others don't care as such.

Transferred over to quantum theory this is QBism (Quantum Bayesianism), the Ensemble Interpretation and Copenhagen.

Again though it is only on this minor "philosophy of probability" point that they disagree, not really anything specific to QM.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes dextercioby and vanhees71
These papers by Pegg et al. (doi: 10.1016/j.shpsb.2008.02.003 [section 4]; https://www.researchgate.net/publication/230928426_Retrodiction_in_quantum_optics [section 3.2]) seem to show that photon Bell correlations can be inferred using quantum theory in a manner that is compatible with locality by performing quantum retrodiction (i.e. inferring information about the past: e.g. https://doi.org/10.3390/sym13040586; more papers at end) where they evolve backward from Alice's measured outcome...

Similar threads

  • · Replies 84 ·
3
Replies
84
Views
6K
  • · Replies 309 ·
11
Replies
309
Views
16K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 91 ·
4
Replies
91
Views
8K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 199 ·
7
Replies
199
Views
18K
  • · Replies 109 ·
4
Replies
109
Views
10K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
1K