Quick order preserving map question

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around demonstrating the injectivity of a function \( f: X \to Y \) between ordered sets \( X \) and \( Y \), given that \( f \) is surjective and preserves order. Participants are exploring the implications of the order-preserving property in the context of injectivity.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are examining the implications of the order-preserving property, particularly questioning whether \( f(x) < f(y) \) or \( f(x) \leq f(y) \) when \( x < y \). There is an exploration of contradictions arising from assuming non-injectivity.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants seeking clarification on the definitions and implications of order preservation. Some guidance has been provided regarding the relationship between the order of \( x \) and \( y \) and the corresponding values of \( f(x) \) and \( f(y) \), but no consensus has been reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working within the constraints of definitions related to order-preserving functions and are questioning the assumptions inherent in these definitions. There is an emphasis on the logical implications of these assumptions in the context of injectivity.

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Homework Statement



Let X and Y be ordered sets in the order topology.
I want to show that a function f:X→Y is injective. We are given that f is surjective and preserves order.

Homework Equations



Definition of an order preserving map:

If x≤y implies f(x)≤f(y)

The Attempt at a Solution



So if we assume that it is not injective then we are assuming that f(x)=f(y) and x\neqy.

Then either x>y or y<x. Assuming both, would clearly be a contradiction since it can only be one or the other in an ordered set.

Now I need to show that x>y raises a contradiction and similarly x<y also raises a contradiction.


My main question here is if x<y is it a contradiction if f(x)=f(y)?
It seems like if order is preserved then if x<y then f(x)<f(y)
but by the definition, it appears that if x<y then f(x)<f(y) or f(x)=f(y).

Thank you for your time.
 
Last edited:
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EV33 said:

Homework Statement



Let X and Y be ordered sets in the order topology.
I want to show that a function f:X→Y is injective. We are given that f is surjective and preserves order.

Homework Equations



Definition of an order preserving map:

If x≤y implies f(x)≤f(y)

The Attempt at a Solution



So if we assume that it is not injective then we are assuming that f(x)=f(y) and x\neqy.

Then either x>y or y<x.
Assuming both, would clearly be a contradiction since it can only be one or the other in an ordered set.

Now I need to show that x>y raises a contradiction and similarly x<y also raises a contradiction.
Yes, you do. Use the fact that f is an order preserving map. If x< y, what can you say about f(x) and f(y)?


My main question here is if x<y is it a contradiction if f(x)=f(y)?
It seems like if order is preserved then if x<y then f(x)<f(y)
but by the definition, it appears that if x<y then f(x)<f(y) or f(x)=f(y).
What, exactly, is that definition? "if x< y the f(x)\le f(y)?

Thank you for your time.
 
Thank you, HallsofIvy. Actually, what you just said is exactly what my question is. My question was probably a little convoluted so let me restate it.

I was trying to ask, if we have a function that preserves order
and x<y

1) do we conclude that f(x)<f(y)

2)or do we conclude that f(x)≤f(y)

The definition makes me think it is the second option but if I didn't have the definition I would have thought it was the first.
 
Last edited:
Just to make it more clear what I am asking. If order is preserved does it mean

if x<y implies f(x)<f(y)
if x>y implies f(x)>f(y)
if x=y imples f(x)=f(y)
if x≤y imples f(x)≤f(y)
if x≥y imples f(x)≥f(y)
 

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