[Quick] States of interacting and non-interacting Hamiltonian

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    Hamiltonian States
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the scalar product of multi-particle states from a full Hamiltonian and one-particle states from a free Hamiltonian within the context of quantum field theory (QFT). Participants explore the implications of these states belonging to different subspaces of the Fock space and seek references for further understanding.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the scalar product of multi-particle states from the full Hamiltonian and one-particle states from the free Hamiltonian should be zero due to their belonging to different orthogonal subspaces of the Fock space.
  • Others argue that the multi-particle state can be expressed as a sum of free single-particle and many-particle states, raising the question of whether any coefficients in front of the free single-particle states are non-zero.
  • A later reply questions the assumption that the scalar product is zero, noting that the states are eigenvectors of different operators, which complicates the orthogonality argument.
  • One participant clarifies the terminology used, distinguishing between the "full interacting Hamiltonian" and "full multiparticle interacting QFT in 4D," emphasizing the need for precise definitions in the discussion.
  • References such as "Haag's theorem" and "unitarily inequivalent representations" are suggested for further exploration of the disjointness of Hilbert spaces in QFT.
  • Another participant expresses confusion regarding the terminology and requests further clarification and references to understand the concepts better.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the scalar product's value, with some asserting it should be zero while others question this assumption. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of the states' orthogonality and the definitions of the Hamiltonians involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential misunderstanding of terms related to quantum field theory and the complexity of the relationship between free and interacting Hamiltonians, particularly in the context of infinite degrees of freedom.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in quantum field theory, particularly those exploring the mathematical foundations of Hamiltonians and the structure of Fock space, may find this discussion relevant.

QuantumDevil
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Eigenstates of interacting and non-interacting Hamiltonian

Have multi-particle state of full Hamiltonian and one-particle state of free Hamiltonian non-zero scalar product? Intuitively one can say that scalar product of such states should be zero because each of these states mentioned above belongs to different (orthogonal) subspaces of the Fock space.
Do you know any reference discussing this problem?

P.S. these states are eigenvectors of appropriate Hamiltonians
 
Last edited:
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QuantumDevil said:
Have multi-particle state of full Hamiltonian and one-particle state of free Hamiltonian non-zero scalar product?

The multi-particle state of the full hamiltonian can be expanded as a sum of free single-particle and many-particle states with various coefficients. Are any of the coefficient in front of the free single-particle states non-zero?

Intuitively one can say that scalar product of such states should be zero because each of these states mentioned above belongs to different (orthogonal) subspaces of the Fock space.
if that were the case then the scalar product would obviously be zero. but are you sure that is the case? If they were eigenvectors of *the same* operator with different eigenvalues, then they would certainly be orthogonal, but they are eigenvectors of different operators.

Do you know any reference discussing this problem?

P.S. these states are eigenvectors of appropriate Hamiltonians
 
Are any of the coefficient in front of the free single-particle states non-zero?
I don't know. Therefore I asked question in the first message.
 
QuantumDevil said:
Have multi-particle state of full Hamiltonian and one-particle state of free Hamiltonian non-zero scalar product? Intuitively one can say that scalar product of such states should be zero because each of these states mentioned above belongs to different (orthogonal) subspaces of the Fock space.
[These states are eigenvectors of appropriate Hamiltonians]

Do you know any reference discussing this problem?

[This is definitely not a "quick" discussion topic. :-)] If you're talking about full multiparticle
interacting QFT in 4D, the Fock space constructed by polynomials of (free) creation operators
acting on a vacuum state is disjoint from the Hilbert space corresponding to eigenstates
of the full interacting Hamiltonian. The latter Hilbert space is not merely a subspace of
the free Fock space, but a completely disjoint space (hence scalar products between states
from the two spaces are conventionally defined to be zero).

If you search for "Haag's theorem" and "unitarily inequivalent representations" that
should turn up more info on this, at least in the context of orthodox formulations of QFT.
 
I dont' actually understand the notion "full multiparticle
interacting QFT in 4D" introduced by You and the difference between it and "full interacting Hamiltonian". (Maybe the reason is that I'm not native English speaker).
Could you explain it in more detailed way or give me some references?

By "full interacting Hamiltonian" I don't mean interaction term, of course.
 
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QuantumDevil said:
I dont' actually understand the notion "full multiparticle
interacting QFT in 4D" introduced by You and the difference between it and "full interacting Hamiltonian". (Maybe the reason is that I'm not native English speaker).
Could you explain it in more detailed way or give me some references?

By "full interacting Hamiltonian" I don't mean interaction term, of course.

I'll write [itex]H_0[/itex] to mean the free Hamiltonian. That is, the Hamiltonian in the
absence of interactions.

I'll write [itex]H_{int}[/itex] to mean the interaction. (Some people write [itex]V[/itex] for
this instead.)

Then the full interacting Hamiltonian is [itex]H = H_0 + H_{int}[/itex]

By "multiparticle Hamiltonian", I meant a Hamiltonian that describes the dynamical
evolution of many particles (rather than just a single particle). Actually, this is a poor
term, and I should have said "infinite degrees of freedom" instead of "multiparticle".

"4D" just means that it's for 3+1 spacetime.

Peskin & Schroeder is the obvious reference that immediately comes to mind
for basic QFT stuff. That should clarify the distinction between the "free" and
"interaction" parts of the Hamiltonian.

But P&S don't talk much about the disjointness between "free" and "interacting"
Hilbert spaces for infinite degrees of freedom. Try Umezawa for that.
 

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