Rachel Corrie's reports from Israel and her death

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Zero
Well, in this case it is true...the citizens are likely fine folks who I would get along with one-on-one. On the other hand, an nation created for Jews is a situation that seems to encourage this sort of behaviour, as much as any fundamentalist Islamic government. Frankly, I'm surprised Israel isn't worse, but that doesn't mean it is ok.

Israel isn't worse because it is NOT a nation created for Jews at the exclusion of others unlike the rest of the countries in the Middle East which DO exist for Muslims at the exclusion of others. Heck, in most countries the different sects of Islam kill and/or oppress each other and cooperate only in what they do to non-believers.

And again, we've had this discussion about Israel being the only democracy in the Middle East before. Just because it was created for Jews does not mean no-one else is allowed to live there or share in the freedom and prosperity. This is the same misunderstnading you have of patriotism. Israel is a real democracy and its the only one in the middle east.

I find this especially ironic since you seem to advocate a creation of a Palestinian state, which by definition would be a theocracy - a government run in accordance with islamic law (which would not make it unique).

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Israel isn't worse because it is NOT a nation created for Jews at the exclusion of others unlike the rest of the countries in the Middle East which DO exist for Muslims at the exclusion of others. Heck, in most countries the different sects of Islam kill and/or oppress each other and cooperate only in what they do to non-believers.

And again, we've had this discussion about Israel being the only democracy in the Middle East before. Just because it was created for Jews does not mean no-one else is allowed to live there or share in the freedom and prosperity. This is the same misunderstnading you have of patriotism. Israel is a real democracy and its the only one in the middle east.

I find this especially ironic since you seem to advocate a creation of a Palestinian state, which by definition would be a theocracy - a government run in accordance with islamic law (which would not make it unique).

We are going to have tyo agree to disagree on this...have you read the latest? Palestinians cannot be citizens of Israel by marriage...and, of course, Israel is NOT a democracy.

 

[Zero]

I think we are pretty far off topic...I'm going to fall back on my standard position, which is that the Israeli/Palestinian is a police action being conducted by military troops, so of course much human rights violations ensue. It is like using a hammer to install screws; it will work, I guess, but it does more damage than it should, and is certainly not the right tool.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by Zero
Palestinians cannot be citizens of Israel by marriage...

It was not forbidden there are just more limmitations.
Many phousands of Palestinians - men almost all of them
had been faking marrieges to Israeli arab women to
receive Israeli citizenship. In the entire Muslim world
it is traditional for the woman to move in with her
husband but here there was a completely reversed situation
designed to abuse the law. It is no different from the
limmitations of US immigration laws and the many frauds
they have to deal with when so many people attempt to
abuse the law and receive US citizenship that way. Further more,
here it is more than just a matter of abusing immigration
laws, it is further an issue of security and of political
manipulation by the PNA. There is nothing non-democratic
about it, unless you wish to call every developed "western"
country non-democratic.

Live long and prosper.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by drag
It was not forbidden there are just more limmitations.
Many phousands of Palestinians - men almost all of them
had been faking marrieges to Israeli arab women to
receive Israeli citizenship. In the entire Muslim world
it is traditional for the woman to move in with her
husband but here there was a completely reversed situation
designed to abuse the law. It is no different from the
limmitations of US immigration laws and the many frauds
they have to deal with when so many people attempt to
abuse the law and receive US citizenship that way. Further more,
here it is more than just a matter of abusing immigration
laws, it is further an issue of security and of political
manipulation by the PNA. There is nothing non-democratic
about it, unless you wish to call every developed "western"
country non-democratic.

Live long and prosper.

Why should there be a limitation? A large number of Palestinians work in Israel, but aren't allowed to be citizens. They have to go back at night before curfew...sounds like South Africa to me.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Why should there be a limitation?

Gee whiz..I'm stumped..I just can't figure this one out..

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
Gee whiz..I'm stumped..I just can't figure this one out..

This is an invitation for insult, isn't it? I'm not going to bite.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
This is an invitation for insult, isn't it? I'm not going to bite.

It was, in fact, an invitation to think as opposed to serving up yet another platter of rhetoric. I suppose, at this point, that there is no use in holding any manner of dialogue with you on the subject whatsoever..so, recognizing that you cannot/will not recognize that perhaps for Israel the "justice" you keeping crying for is by dire necessity a secondary concept that takes a back seat to halting the actions which are perceived as a threat to their very existence, I will instead resort to infrequent sarcasm and hope for the best.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
It was, in fact, an invitation to think as opposed to serving up yet another platter of rhetoric. I suppose, at this point, that there is no use in holding any manner of dialogue with you on the subject whatsoever..so, recognizing that you cannot/will not recognize that perhaps for Israel the "justice" you keeping crying for is by dire necessity a secondary concept that takes a back seat to halting the actions which are perceived as a threat to their very existence, I will instead resort to infrequent sarcasm and hope for the best.

How about if I just delete further sarcastic posts? I'm sick of you pretending that Israel holds some moral high ground.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Zero
How about if I just delete further sarcastic posts? I'm sick of you pretending that Israel holds some moral high ground.

Israel's moral high ground is clear enough.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Israel's moral high ground is clear enough.

That's because it is low enough that most other countries can look down on it.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
That's because it is low enough that most other countries can look down on it.

Interesting, I'm fighting the sarcasm..I really am!
But seriously, I think I'm going to use this as a starter for a new thread. I think it would be an interesting subject to delve into.