Random number generation: probability of 2nd smallest >0.002

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around random number generation and the probability of the second smallest number being greater than 0.002, involving independent and identically distributed random variables. Participants explore the cumulative distribution function (CDF) and probability density function (PDF) for order statistics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the probability calculations for two scenarios: all numbers being greater than 0.002 and exactly one number being less than 0.002. There is uncertainty about how to combine these probabilities and the implications of the binomial distribution.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided calculations for specific cases and are exploring the implications of their findings. There is an ongoing examination of the probabilities involved, with some participants questioning their approaches and considering alternative methods. No consensus has been reached yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the problem and the need for careful consideration of the assumptions regarding the distribution of the random variables. There is also mention of potential errors in earlier calculations and the importance of verifying results through different methods.

psie
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Homework Statement
One hundred numbers, uniformly distributed in the interval ##(0,1)## are generated by a computer. What is the probability that the largest number is at most ##0.9##? What is the probability that the second smallest number is at least ##0.002##?
Relevant Equations
The extreme order variables ##X_{(1)}=\min\{X_1,\ldots,X_{100}\}## and ##X_{(100)}=\max\{X_1,\ldots,X_{100}\}## have cdf ##F_{X_{(1)}}(x)=1-(1-F(x))^{100}## and ##F_{X_{(100)}}(x)=(F(x))^{100}## respectively, where ##F## is the cdf of the iid ##X_1,\ldots,X_{100}##.
The first question is fairly straightforward. The density of ##X## (i.e. one of the iid r.v.s. ##X_1,\ldots,X_{100}##) is just ##f(x)=1## for ##0<x<1## and ##0## otherwise. The cdf ##F## is therefore ##F(x)=x## for ##0<x<1##, ##F(x)=0## for ##x<0## and ##F(x)=1## for ##x>1##. In the first question, we are interested in \begin{align*} P(X_{(100)}<0.9)&=F_{X_{(100)}}(0.9) \\ &=(0.9)^{100}.\end{align*}For the 2nd question, I don't know how to approach this and I'm stuck. The cdf of arbitrary order variables has not been derived yet. I know we are looking for ##P(X_{(2)}>0.002)=1-P(X_{(2)}<0.002)##. But maybe there's a workaround. I only know the formulas in the relevant equations above. Grateful for any help.
 
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Hi,

so the condition in the second question is met in two cases:
a) if all 100 numbers are > 0.002 -- which has a probability ...
b) if one number is < 0.002 AND all others are > 0.002

one number is < 0.002 has probability ...​
99 others > 0.002 probability ...​

##\ ##
 
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BvU said:
Hi,

so the condition in the second question is met in two cases:
a) if all 100 numbers are > 0.002 -- which has a probability ...
b) if one number is < 0.002 AND all others are > 0.002

one number is < 0.002 has probability ...​
99 others > 0.002 probability ...​

##\ ##
Ok. So (a) occurs with probability \begin{align*}P(X_1>0.002,X_2>0.002,\ldots,X_n>0.002)&=\prod_{i=1}^{100} (1-P(X_i<0.002))\\ &=(1-F(0.002))^{100} \\ &=(0.998)^{100}\approx 0.819.\end{align*} But for (b), I am not sure how to proceed. We've got ##100## possibilities for one of the sample points to be less than ##<0.002## and all others ##>0.002##, right? Do we just multiply ##100## with $$P(X_1>0.002,X_2>0.002,\ldots,X_k<0.002,\ldots, X_n>0.002)?$$ If one has obtained the probability for (b), I am not sure how one obtains the (total) probability for the second question.
 
Ok, I think I know now how to calculate the probability in (b). We are essentially making 100 trials and looking for success (i.e. that a number is greater 0.002) in 99 of the trials. The success probability is $$P(X>0.002)=1-P(X<0.002)=1-F(0.002)=0.998.$$ Now, the probability that the count ##Y=99## follows a binomial distribution, so $$P(Y=99)=\binom{100}{99} (0.998)^{99}(0.002)^{100-99}\approx 0.164.$$As (a) and (b) are disjoint events, we have that the probability for the 2nd question is $$0.164+0.819=0.983.$$That seems like a very high probability.
 
I agree it's rather high.
I painted myself in a corner trying to get the result coming from the other side: there are ##\binom{100}{2}=4950## possible pairs. Require both ##\ <0.002## gives ##0.0198## --- which is not ## 1-0.9826 = 0.0174##.
Oh boy .... :nb)

##\ ##
 
BvU said:
trying to get the result coming from the other side: there are ##\binom{100}{2}=4950## possible pairs. Require both ##\ <0.002## gives ##0.0198##
So that is the probability that exactly 2 numbers are less than 0.002. What happens if exactly 3 numbers are less than 0.002?
 
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I think the answer I got is correct. :smile:

We can check it via Wikipedia and WolframAlpha. The density of the 2nd order variable ##U_{(2)}## (see Wikipedia) is $$f_{U_{(2)}}(x) = \frac{100!}{98!} x (1-x)^{98}.$$Integrating from ##0.002## to ##1## gives (see WolframAlpha) approximately ##0.983##.
 
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pbuk said:
So that is the probability that exactly 2 numbers are less than 0.002. What happens if exactly 3 numbers are less than 0.002?
Yep, the check I tried was too hasty : forgot the (1-0.002)^98 and overlooked the 3, 4, 5, etc. o:)
Good catch !

##\ ##
 
psie said:
I think the answer I got is correct. :smile:
So do I, although perhaps a little over-complicated getting there: you seem to have focussed on PDFs and CDFs but both parts of the problem can be more simply answered from binomial fundamentals.

psie said:
What is the probability that the largest number is at most ##0.9##?
This is the probability that all 100 numbers are less than 0.9: ## 0.9^{100} ##.

psie said:
What is the probability that the second smallest number is at least ##0.002##?
This is the probability that either:
- all 100 numbers are greater than 0.002: ## 0.998^{100} \approx 0.8186##; or
- exactly 1 number is less than 0.002: ## \binom{100}{1} 0.002^1 0.998^{99} \approx 0.1640 ##.
Adding the two (they are as you say mutually exclusive) gives the answer
$$ 0.998^{100} + \binom{100}{1} 0.002^1 0.998^{99} \approx 0.9826 $$

Note that you can often boost your confidence in an answer with a quick numerical simulation.
 
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