Rank of composition of linear maps

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the rank of the composition of linear maps within the context of finite-dimensional vector spaces. Participants explore the properties of the rank of linear maps, particularly focusing on whether the rank of the composition of two linear maps is bounded by the ranks of the individual maps.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an inductive argument to show that the rank of the composition of linear maps is less than or equal to the minimum rank of the individual maps.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the claim that the image of the composition is contained within the images of the individual maps, providing a counterexample.
  • Subsequent posts discuss the implications of the rank of a function being related to the number of independent vectors in its image and domain.
  • Participants explore the idea that if the rank of the composition exceeds the rank of one of the maps, it leads to a contradiction regarding the number of independent vectors.
  • There is a suggestion that the minimum of the ranks of the individual maps could be used to establish a bound on the rank of their composition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the initial claim about the image containment of compositions of linear maps. However, there is a general agreement on the reasoning that leads to the conclusion that the rank of the composition is less than or equal to the ranks of the individual maps.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the properties of linear maps and their ranks, but these assumptions are not universally accepted or proven within the thread. The exploration of counterexamples indicates that the participants are navigating through complex mathematical reasoning.

mathmari
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Hey! :giggle:

Question 1:
Let $C$ be a $\mathbb{R}$-vector space, $1\leq n\in \mathbb{N}$ and let $\phi_1, \ldots , \phi_n:V\rightarrow V$ be linear maps.
I have shown by induction that $\phi_1\circ \ldots \circ \phi_n$ is then also a linear map.
I want to show now by induction that if $V$ is finite then $\text{Rank}(\phi_1\circ \ldots \circ \phi_n)\leq \min \{\text{Rank}(\phi_i)\mid 1\leq i\leq n\}$.

Base Case : For $n=1$ we have that $\text{Rank}(\phi_1)\leq \min \{\text{Rang}(\phi_1)\}$, so the equality holds.
Inductive Hypothesis : We suppose that it holds for $n=m$, so $\text{Rank}(\phi_1\circ \ldots \circ \phi_m)\leq \min \{\text{Rank}(\phi_i)\mid 1\leq i\leq m\}$. (IV)
Inductive Step : We want to show that it holds for $n=m+1$, i.e. that $\text{Rank}(\phi_1\circ \ldots \circ \phi_m\circ \phi_{m+1})\leq \min \{\text{Rank}(\phi_i)\mid 1\leq i\leq m+1\}$.
Does it hold in general that $\text{Im}(f\circ g)\subseteq \text{Im}(f)$ and $\text{Im}(f\circ g)\subseteq \text{Im}(g)$ and so we get $\text{Rank}(f\circ g)\leq \text{Rank}(f)$ and $\text{Rank}(f\circ g)\leq \text{Rank}(g)$ ?

:unsure:
 
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mathmari said:
Does it hold in general that $\text{Im}(f\circ g)\subseteq \text{Im}(f)$ and $\text{Im}(f\circ g)\subseteq \text{Im}(g)$ and so we get $\text{Rank}(f\circ g)\leq \text{Rank}(f)$ and $\text{Rank}(f\circ g)\leq \text{Rank}(g)$ ?
Hey mathmari!

I'm afraid not. (Shake)

Consider $f:v\mapsto e_1$ and $g:v\mapsto e_2$. Then $\text{Im}(f\circ g)\not\subseteq \text{Im}(g)$.
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
I'm afraid not. (Shake)

Consider $f:v\mapsto e_1$ and $g:v\mapsto e_2$. Then $\text{Im}(f\circ g)\not\subseteq \text{Im}(g)$.

Ah ok.. But how can we continue then the inductive step? :unsure:
 
mathmari said:
Ah ok.. But how can we continue then the inductive step?
The rank of a function with a specific domain is the number of independent vectors in the image.
And the number of independent vectors in the image is at most the number of independent vectors in the domain. 🤔
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
The rank of a function with a specific domain is the number of independent vectors in the image.
And the number of independent vectors in the image is at most the number of independent vectors in the domain. 🤔

But how do we use that? I got stuck right now. :unsure:
 
mathmari said:
But how do we use that? I got stuck right now.
Suppose $\operatorname{Rank}(f\circ g)>\operatorname{Rank}(g)$.
Then there must be more independent vectors in $(f\circ g)(V)$ than in $g(V)$.
But there can only be at most as many independent vectors in $f(g(V))$ as there are in $g(V)$.
Contradiction.
Therefore $\operatorname{Rank}(f\circ g)\le\operatorname{Rank}(g)$. 🤔
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Suppose $\operatorname{Rank}(f\circ g)>\operatorname{Rank}(g)$.
Then there must be more independent vectors in $(f\circ g)(V)$ than in $g(V)$.
But there can only be at most as many independent vectors in $f(g(V))$ as there are in $g(V)$.
Contradiction.
Therefore $\operatorname{Rank}(f\circ g)\le\operatorname{Rank}(g)$. 🤔

Ahh ok (Malthe)

And in general it holds that $\operatorname{Rank}(f\circ g)\le\operatorname{Rank}(f)$.

So we have that $\operatorname{Rank}(f\circ g)\le\operatorname{Rank}(f)$ and $\operatorname{Rank}(f\circ g)\le\operatorname{Rank}(g)$ and then we take the minimum? :unsure:
 
mathmari said:
And in general it holds that $\operatorname{Rank}(f\circ g)\le\operatorname{Rank}(f)$.

So we have that $\operatorname{Rank}(f\circ g)\le\operatorname{Rank}(f)$ and $\operatorname{Rank}(f\circ g)\le\operatorname{Rank}(g)$ and then we take the minimum?
Yep. (Nod)
 

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