Ratio of abundance of sub-atomic particles in the universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the ratios of abundance of sub-atomic particles in the universe, including protons, electrons, neutrons, photons, neutrinos, and dark matter. Participants explore theoretical frameworks and observational data related to these quantities, touching on concepts from the standard model of particle physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the universe has a net charge of approximately zero, suggesting a balance between protons and electrons.
  • It is noted that baryonic matter is roughly 75% hydrogen-1 and 25% helium-4 by mass, leading to a ratio of about 7 protons to 7 electrons to 1 neutron.
  • Participants mention the presence of approximately 15 billion photons and roughly 10 billion neutrinos, with the mass of dark matter particles remaining uncertain.
  • One participant questions whether current theories allow dark matter to consist of known standard model particles, referencing exotic models that may not be effective.
  • There is a discussion about the generation of photons, with one participant asserting that there is no limit to the number of photons created, while also stating that photons and matter have coexisted since the early universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approximate ratios of protons, electrons, and neutrons, as well as the existence of photons and neutrinos. However, there is no consensus on the nature of dark matter and whether it can be composed of standard model particles, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the mass of dark matter particles and the implications of current theories on their composition. The discussion also highlights limitations in understanding the origins and densities of various particles.

tim9000
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I was wondering if there is a current hypothesis about the quantities of which matter particles were created?
I'm not completely au fait with the standard model, but I've seen the picture:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...tandard_Model_of_Elementary_Particles.svg.png

And when I was at HS I always wondered if it was a property of the universe that matter was made like 'one electron for every proton'? (Sort of thing)

So is there any theory regarding the ratios of abundance of those sub-atomic particles in the universe (including dark matter) ?

Thanks
 
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The universe has a net charge of (approximately?) zero. As proton and electron are the only stable or long-living particles, there are about as many protons as there are electrons in the universe.
To a good approximation, baryonic matter is 75% hydrogen-1 and 25% helium-4 by mass, which means we have a ratio of about 7 protons to 7 electrons to 1 neutron. And keeping that scale, we have to add about 15 billion photons, roughly 10 billion neutrinos and an unknown number of dark matter particles (their energy density is well-known, but their mass per particle is not). Everything else is negligible.

The latter two numbers are from cosmological observations (and conversion of the energy density to particle densities).
 
mfb said:
The universe has a net charge of (approximately?) zero. As proton and electron are the only stable or long-living particles, there are about as many protons as there are electrons in the universe.
To a good approximation, baryonic matter is 75% hydrogen-1 and 25% helium-4 by mass, which means we have a ratio of about 7 protons to 7 electrons to 1 neutron. And keeping that scale, we have to add about 15 billion photons, roughly 10 billion neutrinos and an unknown number of dark matter particles (their energy density is well-known, but their mass per particle is not). Everything else is negligible.

The latter two numbers are from cosmological observations (and conversion of the energy density to particle densities).
Thanks for that really good answer. Ok so a net charge of approximately zero.

So does current theory permit dark matter to be comprised of some already sort of identified standard model particles? (just like exotic forms)

What about photons, is there any limit to the 'number' of photons created? like conceivably was it just matter that was created "IN THE BEGINNING"? And photons are just generated from taking energy from the matter?

Thanks again
 
tim9000 said:
So does current theory permit dark matter to be comprised of some already sort of identified standard model particles?
There are a few exotic models, but they all don't work well.
tim9000 said:
What about photons, is there any limit to the 'number' of photons created?
There is no limit, but we know the density of photons.
As far back as we can trust our theories, there were always photons and matter at the same time. And all the other elementary particles as well.
 

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