Realities of being a mature PhD student

[Deepstar]

Hi all, I'm hoping this is the correct place to ask this kind of question.

By way of context, I'm currently 38 and serving in the military, with a background in aviation including flight test. About 5 years ago I completed a full-time MSc in aerospace systems and I really enjoyed the experience as someone who didn't go to university at 18 as an undergraduate (I was accepted onto the MSc course with prior experience taken into account).

I've always had an interest in physics and astronomy as a lay-person, and pursued this through hobbies and popular science books, and have seen several part-time, distance-learning PhD programmes in Astronomy or Astrophysics. Given how much I enjoyed my MSc experience, I am considering working applying for one of the PhD programmes assuming that my MSc meets the requirements for a maths/physics/engineering degree.

However, I'm aware that enjoying an MSc and having an amateur level interest is not the same as studying at PhD level, especially as an older student. Has anyone here ever done a similar programme, or have any thoughts as to what the reality might be or what questions I should be asking to see if this really is what I'm looking for?

My follow-up question is if I do decide to go down this route, is there any advice on how to prepare for it in terms of self-study?

 

[CrysPhys]

Given how much I enjoyed my MSc experience, I am considering working applying for one of the PhD programmes assuming that my MSc meets the requirements for a maths/physics/engineering degree.

* I can't address your primary questions directly, since I'm in the US and our PhD programs are structured differently from those in the UK. But two follow-up questions for you.

* You didn't complete an undergrad degree, but did complete a MSc in aerospace systems. You said you want to pursue a PhD program in astronomy or astrophysics. But are you willing to pursue a PhD in some field of aerospace engineering? You have no formal undergrad background; how much coursework did you have in astronomy or astrophysics as part of your MSc program? Leapfrogging into a PhD program (assuming you get accepted) without proper preparation could be disastrous.

* If you do pursue a PhD program in astronomy or astrophysics, will this purely be for your own personal enlightenment, or a means to a career? What sort of career do you envision after you complete your PhD?

 

[Hornbein]

Hi all, I'm hoping this is the correct place to ask this kind of question.

By way of context, I'm currently 38 and serving in the military, with a background in aviation including flight test. About 5 years ago I completed a full-time MSc in aerospace systems and I really enjoyed the experience as someone who didn't go to university at 18 as an undergraduate (I was accepted onto the MSc course with prior experience taken into account).

I've always had an interest in physics and astronomy as a lay-person, and pursued this through hobbies and popular science books, and have seen several part-time, distance-learning PhD programmes in Astronomy or Astrophysics. Given how much I enjoyed my MSc experience, I am considering working applying for one of the PhD programmes assuming that my MSc meets the requirements for a maths/physics/engineering degree.

However, I'm aware that enjoying an MSc and having an amateur level interest is not the same as studying at PhD level, especially as an older student. Has anyone here ever done a similar programme, or have any thoughts as to what the reality might be or what questions I should be asking to see if this really is what I'm looking for?

My follow-up question is if I do decide to go down this route, is there any advice on how to prepare for it in terms of self-study?

I went to mathematics graduate school at age 35. I enjoyed my time there and am glad I did it but it didn't lead anywhere. I clearly didn't have what it takes. People who succeed in that line of work have typically been doing math as a hobby since they were little kids. The most successful like Feynman or Schwinger have been doing it as an obsession since they were kids. Competing with such people is impossible. It's like trying to take up piano at an advanced age (something I also have done).

There was one student there who was clearly much better than everyone else. A prof had written him a bad letter of recommendation. After a year he transferred to Princeton, possibly the best program in the USA. We were obviously not in his league. He knew everything already and was wasting his time with us.

Astronomy and astrophysics have no monetary value so they are particularly competitive. BUT if you are like me, bored with your job with no family and going to grad school is your idea of a pleasant vacation then go for it. After I got out I went back to programming and retired at age 48, moving to a pleasant rural island in Asia where I could live off of savings. Lack of attachment worked out very well for me.

 

[Choppy]

A PhD is a full time job. I have seen people complete them part time, but that can drastically extend the length of something that's already quite lengthy.

I bring this up because you're looking at spending the next 4-6 years of your life completely dedicated to a specific project. That's one thing when you're 23 years old and don't have a lot of life obligations yet. Mature students tend to be at a different stage in life... committed long term partnerships, children, mortgage, etc. These factors can make the decision to pursue a PhD much more consequential. That's not to say it can't be done, but just be aware of what you're signing up for... long hours, little income, and considerable opportunity cost in terms of not paying down a mortgage of having little money left over to contribute to a retirement savings plan.

There are advantages to being a mature student though. Being older gives you more experience to draw on as you pursue your project. If nothing else you're more likely to get the outdated Simpsons references your instructors use.

 

[Deepstar]

Thanks all, these are good questions and the kind of sanity check I was looking for.

* I can't address your primary questions directly, since I'm in the US and our PhD programs are structured differently from those in the UK. But two follow-up questions for you.

* You didn't complete an undergrad degree, but did complete a MSc in aerospace systems. You said you want to pursue a PhD program in astronomy or astrophysics. But are you willing to pursue a PhD in some field of aerospace engineering? You have no formal undergrad background; how much coursework did you have in astronomy or astrophysics as part of your MSc program? Leapfrogging into a PhD program (assuming you get accepted) without proper preparation could be disastrous.

* If you do pursue a PhD program in astronomy or astrophysics, will this purely be for your own personal enlightenment, or a means to a career? What sort of career do you envision after you complete your PhD?

- My MSc contained no astronomy or astrophysics content at all, I was thinking I might meet the entry criteria of "successful applicants need to have gained an MPhys or MSc degree in an appropriate subject (for example, physics, astronomy, mathematics)" as my MSc did contain a lot of maths and RF physics as it related to RF comms and radar. My assumption was that astrophysics and it's techniques would have some commonality with those used for RF comms and radar signal processing. Aware this may be somewhat wishful thinking.

- The reason I erred toward astronomy/astrophysics and not something aerospace related was that the main aim with pursuing this is self fulfillment. I am unlikely to be in a position where I would use the PhD as some kind of qualification for a related job (even within aerospace where I am now at the point careerwise where I am not likely to be in a technical role, unless I can work my way back into flight test). Therefore, choosing a subject based on pure interest seemed logical as I'd effectively be doing it as a hobby/passion project.

 

[sbrothy]

Remember that I’m the forum’s self-taught joker/mascot. Mostly when I hand out “advice” it’s from a personal and common sense standpoint, so don’t put too much into it. I can see at least one positive thing about furthering your education which is that the higher your education the higher you’re gonna rise in the military (this is true for any army, any country). So if you plan on staying in the military the higher your education the more brass on your shoulders and the higher paygrade you can expect.

Make sure you don’t select an educational course that will end up boring you though. You must make up your mind about what is most important for you. Your career or your interest in science.

After all you don’t have to aim for a Ph.D to get ahead in the game, and you need to take your skills into account but you of course know that.

Best of luck.