Reason the early Universe was opaque?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the opacity of the early universe, particularly focusing on the role of ionized atoms and electrons in scattering photons. Participants explore the conditions of the early universe, the formation of atomic nuclei, and the behavior of photons in relation to charged particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the early universe was opaque due to ionized atoms, questioning why electrons scatter photons while atoms do not.
  • It is noted that atomic nuclei formed approximately 3 minutes after the singularity, but full atoms did not form until about 400,000 years later, suggesting that there were no complete atoms to be ionized during the early universe.
  • One participant proposes that there must have been equal numbers of positive and negative charges, implying the presence of ions and electrons even if they had not combined into neutral atoms.
  • Another participant explains that atoms are electrically neutral and do not react well to electric fields compared to free charges in a plasma, indicating that only unbound electrons and protons can move in response to electric fields.
  • It is discussed that an isolated atom can only exist in specific energy states, and transitions between these states allow for the absorption or emission of electromagnetic radiation at characteristic wavelengths, contrasting with free electrons that can absorb any wavelength.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints regarding the mechanisms of photon scattering and the conditions of the early universe, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the behavior of charged particles in the early universe and the nature of atomic interactions are not fully resolved, and the discussion reflects differing interpretations of the underlying physics.

PeterPeter
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Apparently the early universe was opaque because the atoms were ionized.

I'm wondering, why do electrons scatter photons but atoms don't?

I'm presuming it's the electrons that do the scattering.
 
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PeterPeter said:
Apparently the early universe was opaque because the atoms were ionized.

I'm wondering, why do electrons scatter photons but atoms don't?

I'm presuming it's the electrons that do the scattering.


Atomic nuclei formed at about 3 minutes after the singularity but entire atoms didn't form until about 400,000 thousand years after so until that time there were no full atoms to even BE ionized. This was all because the energy plasma that was the early universe was SO energetic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_the_universe#mediaviewer/File:History_of_the_Universe.svg
 
phinds said:
Atomic nuclei formed at about 3 minutes after the singularity but entire atoms didn't form until about 400,000 thousand years after so until that time there were no full atoms to even BE ionized. This was all because the energy plasma that was the early universe was SO energetic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_the_universe#mediaviewer/File:History_of_the_Universe.svg

But there must have been equal numbers of + and - charges (I'm assuming here) so there would have been ions and electrons - even if they had never met up with each other before.
 
PeterPeter said:
Apparently the early universe was opaque because the atoms were ionized.

I'm wondering, why do electrons scatter photons but atoms don't?

I'm presuming it's the electrons that do the scattering.

Atoms are electrically neutral overall and, thanks to their quantized energy levels, don't react very well to electric fields compared to free charges like you find in a plasma. In other words, an electric field cannot cause a whole atom to move since it's neutral, but it can cause an electron and a proton to move when they are unbound in a plasma. It's only when the frequency is just right that an electronic/nuclear transition can take place and the atom can absorb a photon.
 
The basis of the quantum mechanical model for atoms is that an isolated atom can only exist in certain energy (quantum) states. EM can be emitted or absorbed by transitions between these discrete states - i.e. only specific, characteristic wavelengths. When white light is shone through a gas, the gas will absorb only the wavelengths corresponding to its emission spectrum.
A free electron can have any energy state so it can transition from its present state to any other - absorbing any wavelength.
A bit of repetition there - sorry.
 

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