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Ultimately if you think of Loop gravity as based on a fixed set of discrete points or a smooth manifold "continuum" then you aren't likely to understand the line of future progress I'm talking about.
The Dirac canonical quantization applied to GR leads to a lot of paraphernalia which it is NOT appropriate to assume (Hartle suggests) unless spacetime geometry is behaving in approximately classical manner. It's a picture that only "emerges" under specific tame circumstances.
That goes for approaches using EMBEDDED spin networks as well. They need a manifold--i.e. extra baggage.
Conversely the spinfoam dynamics approach, by now familiar to everybody, does not involve extra baggage--in particular, no manifold. It is based on what Dowker's abstract seems to be talking about: events. Related combinatorially. No infinite sets, just a finite web of facts/predictions, depending entirely on the history!
So we'll see. We'll watch the video of Dowker's talk and see if it fits with and extends what Hartle had to say to the 2005 Solvay Conference.
Dowker may steer the talk in the Causal Sets direction but that's all right. Loop and Causal Sets share foundation roots--to some extent a common rationale. Eventually "Quantum Foundations" considerations are going to influence the development of Loop gravity--indeed they may already have influenced it to a considerable extent.
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It may help clarify the issues if I paste in a short summary of how I see Hartle's "Decoherent Histories" (DH) version of quantum mechanics. This was originally a post in the "Loop future" thread:
Hartle and friends propose a reformulation of Quantum theory we can call "Histories" QM which basically says that the machinery of Dirac quantization does not exist--it is merely emergent at low energies, a convenient workable approximation to reality over a limited range. The spacelike 3D manifold does not exist in reality. To formulate QM, you need three things:
A. Histories
B. Partitions of histories (grouping, classifying, "coarsegraining" them)
C. a Decoherence functional that tells you when a given partition is bettable.
Sets in a partition represent things you might like to know or to predict. A given partition is bettable when you can assign fair odds (approximate conventional probabilities) to it, make predictions, settle bets, in other words make honest book on it.
The Decoherence functional tells you when a partition of the histories is sufficiently uncorrelated that the probabilities will be additive---interference is small enough to be considered negligible.
Hartle Histories QM is, I believe gaining acceptance. So it makes sense to me, in that light, that the Erlangen group should be moving away from a strict Dirac quantization and in the direction of DUST.
...[That gets you to a nice effective halfway station. Since it's not fundamental, why not make life easy and assume some dust? Going further down that road brings you to Histories=Foams]
The Dirac canonical quantization applied to GR leads to a lot of paraphernalia which it is NOT appropriate to assume (Hartle suggests) unless spacetime geometry is behaving in approximately classical manner. It's a picture that only "emerges" under specific tame circumstances.
That goes for approaches using EMBEDDED spin networks as well. They need a manifold--i.e. extra baggage.
Conversely the spinfoam dynamics approach, by now familiar to everybody, does not involve extra baggage--in particular, no manifold. It is based on what Dowker's abstract seems to be talking about: events. Related combinatorially. No infinite sets, just a finite web of facts/predictions, depending entirely on the history!
So we'll see. We'll watch the video of Dowker's talk and see if it fits with and extends what Hartle had to say to the 2005 Solvay Conference.
Dowker may steer the talk in the Causal Sets direction but that's all right. Loop and Causal Sets share foundation roots--to some extent a common rationale. Eventually "Quantum Foundations" considerations are going to influence the development of Loop gravity--indeed they may already have influenced it to a considerable extent.
================================
It may help clarify the issues if I paste in a short summary of how I see Hartle's "Decoherent Histories" (DH) version of quantum mechanics. This was originally a post in the "Loop future" thread:
Hartle and friends propose a reformulation of Quantum theory we can call "Histories" QM which basically says that the machinery of Dirac quantization does not exist--it is merely emergent at low energies, a convenient workable approximation to reality over a limited range. The spacelike 3D manifold does not exist in reality. To formulate QM, you need three things:
A. Histories
B. Partitions of histories (grouping, classifying, "coarsegraining" them)
C. a Decoherence functional that tells you when a given partition is bettable.
Sets in a partition represent things you might like to know or to predict. A given partition is bettable when you can assign fair odds (approximate conventional probabilities) to it, make predictions, settle bets, in other words make honest book on it.
The Decoherence functional tells you when a partition of the histories is sufficiently uncorrelated that the probabilities will be additive---interference is small enough to be considered negligible.
Hartle Histories QM is, I believe gaining acceptance. So it makes sense to me, in that light, that the Erlangen group should be moving away from a strict Dirac quantization and in the direction of DUST.
...[That gets you to a nice effective halfway station. Since it's not fundamental, why not make life easy and assume some dust? Going further down that road brings you to Histories=Foams]
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