Length and curvature operators in Loop gravity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the exploration of length and curvature operators within Loop Quantum Gravity (LQG). Participants examine the mathematical properties and implications of these operators, referencing key papers and ongoing research in the field. The conversation includes theoretical aspects, potential applications, and the development of geometric observables in LQG.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the area and volume observables in LQG have a discrete spectrum, which has significant mathematical consequences, including bounding energy density and curvature.
  • One participant mentions that length operators have not been as extensively studied as area operators, but references Bianchi's introduction of a length operator in 2008 and its subsequent use by Alesci and colleagues to construct a curvature operator.
  • Another participant expresses interest in the curvature operator paper and highlights the importance of understanding Regge calculus for comprehending the curvature operator's construction.
  • There are mentions of additional resources, such as blog reviews and personal research related to LQG, which may provide supplementary insights into the discussed topics.
  • One participant indicates plans to conduct numerical work on the curvature operator and shares links to relevant programming resources related to LQG.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally share an interest in the developments related to length and curvature operators in LQG, but there is no explicit consensus on the implications or interpretations of these operators. Multiple viewpoints and ongoing research efforts are evident, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations in the discussion include the dependence on specific mathematical definitions and the need for further exploration of the implications of the length and curvature operators. There are also unresolved aspects regarding the semi-classical limits and properties of these operators.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to researchers and students in the fields of quantum gravity, mathematical physics, and those exploring the implications of Loop Quantum Gravity and its geometric observables.

marcus
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Most of us are familiar with the fact that in Loop gravity the area and volume observables have discrete spectrum. The discrete spectrum of the area operator, leading to a smallest positive measurable area, has lots of mathematical consequences that have been derived in the theory. It helps ensure that energy density and curvature are bounded, replacing the cosmological singularity by a rebound.

LENGTH operators may not have been as much studied and used as the area operator. But one was , for example, introduced and studied by Bianchi in 2008. And now it seems that Alesci and friends have used Bianchi's length operator, or something very much like it, to construct a
CURVATURE operator for the theory. This should be interesting. Others besides me may wish to keep track of this development, so I'll post the links:

http://arxiv.org/abs/0806.4710
The length operator in Loop Quantum Gravity
Eugenio Bianchi
(Submitted on 28 Jun 2008)
The dual picture of quantum geometry provided by a spin network state is discussed. From this perspective, we introduce a new operator in Loop Quantum Gravity - the length operator. We describe its quantum geometrical meaning and derive some of its properties. In particular we show that the operator has a discrete spectrum and is diagonalized by appropriate superpositions of spin network states. A series of eigenstates and eigenvalues is presented and an explicit check of its semiclassical properties is discussed.
33 pages, 12 figures; published in Nuclear Physics B

http://arxiv.org/abs/1403.3190
A curvature operator for LQG
Emanuele Alesci, Mehdi Assanioussi, Jerzy Lewandowski
(Submitted on 13 Mar 2014)
We introduce a new operator in Loop Quantum Gravity - the 3D curvature operator - related to the 3-dimensional scalar curvature. The construction is based on Regge Calculus. We define it starting from the classical expression of the Regge curvature, then we derive its properties and discuss some explicit checks of the semi-classical limit.
20 pages.

To see how it goes, refer to SECTION III Construction of the Curvature Operator
and to see how Bianchi's length operator fits in, see page 7, subsection B "The Length Operator".

Angle operators are also defined in Loop gravity. A goodly kit of geometric observables has been developed. It seem that what Alesci, Assaniousi, Lewandowski are doing here is to straightforwardly implement a quantum version of Regge GR, which we know works.
 
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Thanks Marcus, enjoyed Bianchia's 2008 paper and just finished reviewing Alesci' s PhD thesis, So looking forward to reading the curvature paper.
 
Thanks for your comment, David! It's encouraging to know that a PhD theoretical physicist (member of the Royal Astronomical Society too) who is doing research in quantum gravity has time to drop in here at PF and check out Loop gravity news at BtSM.

I was impressed by the reviewing work you do for QG community simply by commenting on papers as you read them, on your blog. For example this review of Alesci's thesis on the graviton propagator in LQG:
http://quantumtetrahedron.wordpress.com/2014/03/07/complete-loop-quantum-gravity-graviton-propagator-by-emanuele-alesci/

It seems that when you read a research paper and it interests you, you take the time to type out some review comments and post them on blog. I wish more QG researchers did this, wouldn't the whole community benefit?
 
David Horgan recently (25 March) posted something relevant to this on his blog.http://quantumtetrahedron.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/a-curvature-operator-for-lqg-by-alesci-assanioussi-and-lewandowski/
It's potentially useful to read it along with the LQG Curvature Operator paper because it explains some things you have to know to understand the paper likeRegge calculus essentials and how curvature is defined in Regge calculus.
marcus said:
...
http://arxiv.org/abs/1403.3190
A curvature operator for LQG
Emanuele Alesci, Mehdi Assanioussi, Jerzy Lewandowski
(Submitted on 13 Mar 2014)
We introduce a new operator in Loop Quantum Gravity - the 3D curvature operator - related to the 3-dimensional scalar curvature. The construction is based on Regge Calculus. We define it starting from the classical expression of the Regge curvature, then we derive its properties and discuss some explicit checks of the semi-classical limit.
20 pages.

To see how it goes, refer to SECTION III Construction of the Curvature Operator
and to see how Bianchi's length operator fits in, see page 7, subsection B "The Length Operator".

Angle operators are also defined in Loop gravity. A goodly kit of geometric observables has been developed. It seem that what Alesci, Assaniousi, Lewandowski are doing here is to straightforwardly implement a quantum version of Regge GR, which we know works.

David Horgan said:
Thanks Marcus, enjoyed Bianchi's 2008 paper and just finished reviewing Alesci' s PhD thesis, So looking forward to reading the curvature paper.

Hi David! I think it is remarkably constructive what you are doing with your personal blog "quantum tetrahedron". I hope the blog will become more ever more widely known and used. I would suggest to anybody who wants to read the LQG Curvature paper (of Alesci et al) that they access your blog so as to have the convenient supplemental material for that paper ready at hand to consult as needed.
 
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Hi Marcus, thanks for your feedback. I'll be doing numerical work on the curvature operator during the next week or so. I've posted a number of sagemath and python programs related to LQG on my blog (http://quantumtetrahedron.wordpress.com/category/personal-research/). I've also posted an interactive sagemath page for LQG at http://wiki.sagemath.org/interact/Loop Quantum Gravity. This mainly looks at eigenvalues for the volume, area and length operators. Anyone interested in these is welcome to contact me.
 
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