Regorous and formal proof of (-1).x =-x

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the request for a rigorous and formal proof of the theorem stating that for all x, (-1).x = -x. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and proof techniques, with participants exploring definitions and contexts for formal proofs.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that proving (-1).x = -x can be approached by showing that (-1).x + x = 0.
  • One participant questions the meaning of "formal proof," suggesting that it may differ from traditional mathematical proofs found in textbooks.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to clarify the algebraic system being used, noting that proofs may vary between different mathematical structures, such as real numbers versus abstract rings.
  • A participant outlines a series of steps that lead to the conclusion (-1).x = -x, using axioms of addition and multiplication.
  • There is a mention of the complexity involved in formal proofs, with references to the extensive work of Russell and Whitehead in proving basic arithmetic concepts.
  • Some participants express that the exercise may primarily serve as practice for homework rather than a pursuit of deeper understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definition of "formal proof" or the appropriate context for the proof. Multiple competing views on the nature of formal proofs and their requirements remain evident throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of specifying the algebraic system in use, as this may significantly affect the proof's structure and validity. There are also unresolved questions regarding the depth and rigor expected in formal proofs.

evagelos
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Give a rigorous and then a formal proof of the theorem :

[tex]\forall x [ (-1).x = -x ][/tex]
 
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Hint: (-1).x = -x means that (-1).x + x = 0
This should be in a homework forum
 
mXSCNT said:
Hint: (-1).x = -x means that (-1).x + x = 0
This should be in a homework forum

Meaning that formal proofs are homework stuf??
 
Once again, we return to the question, "What do you mean by 'formal proof'?"

I think you are just talking about the kind of proof you would find in a math paper or calculus book- far from what, say, logicians would mean by "formal proof". A true "formal proof" of such a thing would probably require an entire book! How many pages did Russel and Whitehead require to prove "1+ 1= 2"?

Another question: what algebraic system are you working in? The proof for an abstract ring or integral domain would be quite different than for the real numbers.

MXSCNT's point is that the only good reason for doing such "fiddly" stuff is practise: homework.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It would be something like:

0.x = 0
(-1+1).x = 0
-1.x + 1.x = 0
-1.x + x = 0
-1.x = -x
 
HallsofIvy said:
Once again, we return to the question, "What do you mean by 'formal proof'?"

The definition was given in another thread by tgt and is the following:

tgt said:
I would mean the kind that most people (at least all the logicians) would regard as formal.

A formal proof or derivation is a finite sequence of sentences (called well-formed formulas in the case of a formal language) each of which is an axiom or follows from the preceding sentences in the sequence by a rule of inference. The last sentence in the sequence is a theorem of a formal system.

.

With the only difference that i may add:

each formula could be, apart from axiom, a theorem or definition


HallsofIvy said:
I think you are just talking about the kind of proof you would find in a math paper or calculus book- far from what, say, logicians would mean by "formal proof". A true "formal proof" of such a thing would probably require an entire book! How many pages did Russel and Whitehead require to prove "1+ 1= 2"?

Go to pages 121 to 139 in ANGELO'S MARGARIS book :

FIRST ORDER MATHEMATICAL LOGIC.There you will find many true "formal proofs" not more than half a page long

You know how many books you need before you double integrate a function ,or write a proof in analysis??

HallsofIvy said:
Another question: what algebraic system are you working in? The proof for an abstract ring or integral domain would be quite different than for the real numbers.

MXSCNT's point is that the only good reason for doing such "fiddly" stuff is practise: homework.

On the following axiomatic system i will base any formal or rigorous proofs:

The primitive symbols are:
= for equality
+ for addition
. for multiplication
- for the inverse in addition
0 constant
1 constant
/ for inverse in multiplication

[tex]1\neq 0[/tex]
AND the axioms are:

1) [tex]\forall a\forall b[ a+b = b+a]...\forall a\forall b[ a.b = b.a ][/tex]

2)[tex]\forall a\forall b\forall c[ a+(b+c) = (a+b)+c]...\forall a\forall b\forall c[ a(bc)=(ab)c][/tex]


3)[tex]\forall a[ a+0 = a]...\forall a[ 1.a =a][/tex]


4) [tex]\forall a[ a+(-a) = 0]...\forall a[ a\neq 0\Longrightarrow a.\frac{1}{a} = 1][/tex].



5)[tex]\forall a\forall b\forall c [ a(b+c) = ab + ac][/tex]


AND now the rigorous proof of (-1)x = -x



(-1)x = (-1)x + 0 =............by axiom 3 (for addition)

=(-1)x +[ x + (-x)]=............by axiom 4 (for addition)

=[(-1)x +x] + (-x) =............by axiom 2 (for addition)

=[(-1)x + 1x] + (-x)=............by axiom 3 (for multiplication)


=[x.1 + x(-1)] + (-x)=............by axiom 1 ( for addition and multiplication)


=[ x( 1 + (-1))] + (-x)=...........by axiom 5


= x.0 + (-x) = ...............by axiom 4 (for addition)


= 0 + (-x) =.............by the theorem 0.x = 0


= -x ...............by axiom 4 (for addition)

Next post the formal proof
 
Sounds like homework to me.
 
HallsofIvy said:
How many pages did Russel and Whitehead require to prove "1+ 1= 2"?

360. But it's complicated only if you're trying to prove that equation under R or C; if you restrict yourself to Peano arithmetic it follows from the definition of 2 and the symmetry of equality.
 

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