Related Rates Calculus: Solving a Challenging Problem with Ladders and Slopes

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SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on solving a related rates problem involving a 20 ft ladder leaning against a house. The user successfully calculated the rate at which the top of the ladder is moving downward (dy/dt = 3/2 ft/sec) but struggled with determining the rate of change of the slope of the ladder. The correct second derivative was found to be -25/72, contrasting with the user's incorrect calculation of -14/256. Key steps included using the Pythagorean theorem and differentiating the slope function.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of related rates in calculus
  • Familiarity with the Pythagorean theorem
  • Ability to differentiate functions
  • Knowledge of first and second derivatives
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the application of the Pythagorean theorem in related rates problems
  • Learn how to derive and interpret second derivatives in calculus
  • Practice additional related rates problems from Schaum's Outline Calculus
  • Explore the concept of implicit differentiation in calculus
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Students in AP Calculus, particularly those studying related rates, educators teaching calculus concepts, and anyone looking to strengthen their problem-solving skills in calculus.

EbolaPox
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I'm in AP Calculus BC and I've had no trouble with any of Calc I or II (I self studied it all previously), but this one related rates problem that seemed relatively simple got me.
(This is also in the Schaum's Outline Calculus book if anyone has that. My teacher gave it to us on a worksheet of practice problems)

Problem:
A ladder 20 ft long leans against a house. Find the rate at which A: the top of the ladder is moving downward if its foot is 12 ft from the house and moving away at a rate of 2 ft/sec. B: The slope of the ladder decreases.

Part A is incredibly easy. Part B is where I'm having trouble. I drew my triangle with a base of x and a height of y and a hypotenuse of 20. I know dx/dt = 2 ft/sec. I solved that dy/dt = 3/2 ft/sec, which is correct (I have the answers also.)
Here is my work so far.

x^2 + y^2 = 20^2
Derive for rates of change
2x(dx/dt) + 2y(dy/dt) = 0
x(dx/dt) = -y(dy/dt)

I then thought "Dy/dx would be the slope of the ladder. Part B wants the rate of change of the slope, so it wants the second derivative."
So, I said -x/y = dy/dx.

I took the derivative of that and got
-(y(dx/dt) - x(dy/dt))/y^2 = Second derivative.
I put in values I had (x = 12 and y =16).

-(16*2) - (12(3/2))/(16^2) . This gave me -14/256. The correct answer is -25/72.

Anyone have any suggestions? (Note: i got the answer if I said dy/dx = -y/x, but that's not true. I was just playing around with it and found that to be correct.)
 
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EbolaPox said:
I'm in AP Calculus BC and I've had no trouble with any of Calc I or II (I self studied it all previously), but this one related rates problem that seemed relatively simple got me.
(This is also in the Schaum's Outline Calculus book if anyone has that. My teacher gave it to us on a worksheet of practice problems)

Problem:
A ladder 20 ft long leans against a house. Find the rate at which A: the top of the ladder is moving downward if its foot is 12 ft from the house and moving away at a rate of 2 ft/sec. B: The slope of the ladder decreases.

Part A is incredibly easy. Part B is where I'm having trouble. I drew my triangle with a base of x and a height of y and a hypotenuse of 20. I know dx/dt = 2 ft/sec. I solved that dy/dt = 3/2 ft/sec, which is correct (I have the answers also.)
Here is my work so far.

x^2 + y^2 = 20^2
Derive for rates of change
2x(dx/dt) + 2y(dy/dt) = 0
x(dx/dt) = -y(dy/dt)

I then thought "Dy/dx would be the slope of the ladder. Part B wants the rate of change of the slope, so it wants the second derivative."
So, I said -x/y = dy/dx.

I took the derivative of that and got
-(y(dx/dt) - x(dy/dt))/y^2 = Second derivative.
I put in values I had (x = 12 and y =16).

-(16*2) - (12(3/2))/(16^2) . This gave me -14/256. The correct answer is -25/72.

Anyone have any suggestions? (Note: i got the answer if I said dy/dx = -y/x, but that's not true. I was just playing around with it and found that to be correct.)

You know that the slope is:

m=\frac{y}{x}=\frac{\sqrt{400-x^2}}{x}

so differentiate with respect to x...

\frac{dm}{dx}=\frac{\frac{dm}{dt}}{\frac{dx}{dt}}

you know that dx/dt=2. Do you see why this gives you the answer?

Alex
 
Last edited:

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