Relative biological effectiveness (RBE) of photon and electron

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relative biological effectiveness (RBE) of photons and electrons, exploring whether their effects on biological matter differ and how their interactions lead to biological damage. Participants examine the underlying processes and energy dependencies involved in these interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the RBE of photons and electrons is considered the same, suggesting that the charge of electrons might influence biological effects.
  • Others note that the effects of photons and electrons are highly dependent on their energy levels, particularly for photons across different ranges.
  • One participant explains that both photons and electrons can cause ionization, but the mechanisms differ; photons interact with matter through processes like photoelectric effect, Compton scattering, and pair production, leading to electron generation.
  • It is proposed that while the initial interactions differ, the subsequent electron tracks produced by both types of radiation may lead to similar biological damage profiles.
  • A participant raises the point that energy differences can affect RBE, citing examples where lower energy photons may require different doses to achieve similar effects compared to higher energy photons.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the biological damage is ultimately linked to the electrons produced by photons, suggesting that the electron's role is crucial in the damage process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms and implications of RBE for photons and electrons, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the discussion involves complex interactions and energy dependencies, with some noting that biological experiments may have large error bars that complicate definitive conclusions.

Leb
Messages
87
Reaction score
0
The title was too long, original question was: Why is the relative biological effectiveness (RBE) of photon and electron the same ? I was suspecting the charge of electron to possibly have some effect...

Also, in biological matter, would there be a difference between photon damage and electron damage in terms of "by products" ? Maybe the damage is the same, but the way the damage is done is different ?
 
Biology news on Phys.org
I am not sure what RBE means here. However the effects of photons and electrons are very much dependent on energy (especially photons ranging from gamma rays to radio waves).
 
For information on RBE see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_biological_effectiveness

For the same energy deposition the question is: which is more effective at ionization?

So a flood of 4.5 eV photons (~250 nm UV = germicidal lamp) is able to break molecular bonds, and ionize many types of molecule. If instead a few higher energy electrons were encountered, but with the same total energy, the electrons would slow via "braking radiation", ionizing molecules, and generating photons at the same time.

The converse is to encounter a few high energy x-rays; these would also slow by "braking radiation": knocking off electrons, and generating lower energy photons.

The result is that the damage profiles are similar because the loss of energy in both cases follows a similar process. Your results may vary when the energy per particle is decreased below the ionization threshold - but RBE is typically concerned with ionizing radiation.
 
mathman, could you give examples where a same energy photon and electron would give different results in terms of biological damage ?
 
Leb said:
The title was too long, original question was: Why is the relative biological effectiveness (RBE) of photon and electron the same ? I was suspecting the charge of electron to possibly have some effect...

Also, in biological matter, would there be a difference between photon damage and electron damage in terms of "by products" ? Maybe the damage is the same, but the way the damage is done is different ?

The first thing to remember here is the process by which both types of radiation induce biological damage. How photons intereact with biological matter is dictated by their energy, but whether it's photoelectric, Compton, or pair production, in each case the photons give rise to electons which then go on to produce radicals that break bonds or in some cases cause damage through direct ionization of something important.

A beam of electrons incident on some tissue will skip that initial interaction part, but afterwards - an electron track is an electron track.

The electrons set in motion by photons are going to have a lower mean energy than the photons. In the case of the photo-electric effect, you lose the electron binding energy. In the case of a Compton scattering event, some of the energy is carried off by the scattered photon, but generally speaking, the energy difference is not so significant so as to cause any difference in the biological effectiveness of the radiation.

You can reach a point where energy difference induces a difference. For example, kV imaging radiation requires less dose to achieve the same effect as MV therapeutic radiation (both photons). So you can expect the RBE to change between a 6 MV photon beam and 40 kV imaging beam. But even this can't always be resolved since the change is small and bilogical experiments often have large error bars associated with them.
 
Thanks for the reply. I slightly forgot, what we were tought again and again, that photon interaction with matter can only occur via 3 processes (in which electrons occur anyway...). So in some sense, it's not the photon, it's the electron that's the culprit (alhthough it is the photon who "creates" the electron).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
11K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
5K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K