Relative Mass & Inertia: Could Near-c Collision Destroy a Star?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Chris Miller
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Inertia Mass Relative
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the theoretical implications of a high-velocity projectile, potentially traveling near the speed of light, colliding with Earth or a star. Participants explore concepts of relativistic mass, kinetic energy, and the feasibility of such collisions causing significant destruction, referencing both theoretical physics and science fiction scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a projectile with relativistic mass could cause damage equivalent to that of an object with similar invariant mass colliding at non-relativistic speeds.
  • Another participant argues against the use of relativistic mass, suggesting that kinetic energy increases significantly as velocity approaches the speed of light, potentially allowing small objects to cause large-scale destruction.
  • Some participants express astonishment at the idea that very small objects, if traveling fast enough, could theoretically destroy large celestial bodies like Earth or a star.
  • A participant references the Greisen–Zatsepin–Kuzmin limit, although the relevance to the discussion is not elaborated upon.
  • Concerns are raised about the safety features of particle accelerators, with one participant asserting that the energy needed to accelerate particles to destructive levels is not achievable with current technology.
  • Another participant provides calculations to illustrate the energy required for a projectile to reach relativistic speeds comparable to Earth's mass, concluding that current particle accelerators operate at much lower energy levels than would be necessary for such destruction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the implications of relativistic mass and the potential for destruction from high-velocity collisions. There is no consensus on whether such collisions could realistically destroy a star or the Earth, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the practicalities of achieving the necessary conditions for such events.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their discussions, including the dependence on definitions of mass and energy, and the unresolved nature of the calculations regarding the energy required for destructive collisions.

Chris Miller
Messages
371
Reaction score
35
If a bullet were to strike the Earth at a velocity close enough to c that its relativistic mass approached that of the Earth, would the damage be equivalent to that of an object of similar invariant mass colliding at a non-relativistic velocity? (The reason I ask is that in Liu Cixin's sci-fi, The Dark Forest, a star is destroyed by hitting it with a small projectile traveling at near c.)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I wouldn't use relativistic mass in this (it's largely a deprecated concept these days outside of pop sci, due to it engendering a lot of confusion), but yes, in theory. The kinetic energy ofa mass moving at speed ##v## is ##(\gamma-1)mc^2##, where ##\gamma =1/\sqrt {1-v^2/c^2}##. That number can be as large as you like, tending to infinity as you approach the speed of light.

Whether or not you can actually destroy a star with a kinetic strike, I don't know. Earth, yes.
 
Thanks for the clarification, Ibix. Amazing, almost unbelievable, to me that something the size of a BB... a grain of sand... even a neutron? could theoretically destroy the Earth (and why not a star then?) if its velocity were close enough to c. Hope those big particle accelerators have some safety features.
 
Chris Miller said:
Hope those big particle accelerators have some safety features.
They aren't needed, at least as far as accidentally letting a world-destroying particle loose. The only way of accelerating a particle to world-destroying energies is to supply that much energy to the particle in the first place - the particle never has more energy than what you put into it to accelerate it.

Now, it would be an interesting exercise to calculate the amount of energy required to accelerate a particle to a speed such that its relativistic mass is equal to the mass of the earth... try it.
 
Chris Miller said:
Hope those big particle accelerators have some safety features.

The only kind of mass I ever talk about is the ordinary mass, so I'll restate your proposal in those terms. A bullet of mass ##0.001## kg collides with Earth, mass ##6 \times 10^{24}## kg. In a frame of reference where Earth is at rest, the bullet is moving so fast that it has an energy of ##6 \times 10^{24}## kg. (Note that I'm measuring energy in kilograms. To convert to joules you would multiply by ##c^2 \approx 9 \times 10^{16}## J/kg.)

Therefore we have ##\gamma \approx \frac{6 \times10^{24}}{0.001} = 6 \times 10^{27}##.

(Note that when a particle's speed is so close to the speed of light that the difference is negligible, we speak of ##\gamma## rather than the speed because the former is more meaningful. This is analogous to speaking of the speed rather than of ##\gamma## when the speed is so small that the difference between ##\gamma## and ##1## is negligible.)

The LHC is the biggest particle accelerator. Its protons move at nearly the speed of light. The ratio of Earth's mass to the proton mass is ##\frac{6 \times10^{24}}{2 \times10^{-27}} \approx 3 \times10^{51}## but those protons are given only enough energy to make ##\gamma \approx 7500##. I think we're safe because we'd need a ##\gamma## of ##3 \times10^{52}## to make that proton as dangerous as your bullet. We have nothing remotely capable of producing that much energy.

SLAC moves electrons at nearly the speed of light and achieves a ##\gamma## of about ##98\ 000##. The ratio of Earth's mass to the electron mass is ##\frac{6 \times10^{24}}{9 \times10^{-31}} \approx 7 \times10^{54}##. Again, we're safe.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: SiennaTheGr8

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
5K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K