Relative Motion vs Time: Paradox Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of relative motion in the context of special relativity, particularly focusing on time dilation and the apparent paradoxes that arise from it. Participants explore the implications of relative motion for observers in different frames of reference, including the Twin Paradox and the relativity of simultaneity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the traditional time dilation effect, questioning why the observer on Earth does not also perceive time passing more slowly on the spaceship.
  • Another participant clarifies that both the man on the ship and the observer on Earth perceive the other's clock as running slow, attributing this to the relativity of simultaneity.
  • A participant mentions the Twin Paradox, noting that it presents a different problem where the traveler ages less upon returning to Earth, despite both parties agreeing on the other's motion.
  • One participant suggests that understanding the relativity of simultaneity is crucial for grasping special relativity, as it helps resolve apparent contradictions in time dilation.
  • Another participant advises clearing preconceived notions from layman's explanations to better understand the complexities of special relativity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of the relativity of simultaneity in understanding time dilation, but there remains confusion and differing interpretations regarding the implications of relative motion and the Twin Paradox.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that layman's guides often inadequately address the relativity of simultaneity, which may lead to misunderstandings about time dilation and the Twin Paradox.

EspressoDan
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Hi,

I'm reading a book explaining relativity. I previously understood the subject in layman's terms but am now confused.

The author has introduced relative motion in an invariant universe with the concept that motion through space is only relative to the observer.

Given this, I'm now struggling with the traditional 'man travels from Earth on spaceship and time slows for him relative to the observer on Earth' effect.

If motion is relative then why isn't the observer on Earth equally traveling away from the ship (ie ship is stationery relative to Earth in it's reference)? Why doesn't the man on the ship observe time passing more slowly on earth?

I realize that this is a paradox, but I can't figure it out. Confused.
 
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EspressoDan said:
If motion is relative then why isn't the observer on Earth equally travel away from the ship (ie ship is stationery relative to Earth in it's reference) and the man on the ship observe time passing more slowly on earth?
As long as the ship is just moving away from the earth, that is exactly what happens: The man on the ship finds that the moving earth-based clocks are running slow compared to his clock, while the people on Earth finds that the moving spaceship clock is running slow compared to their clock. This apparent paradox in time dilation is resolved by the relativity of simultaneity; we have many other threads here that discuss this. Here is one; post #10 of this thread is another; and we have many many more.

The Twin Paradox in which the spaceship turns around and returns to Earth is a completely different problem. The traveller will have experienced less time and aged less on the journey, even though at all times both stay-at-home and traveller agree that the other one is moving relative to them so has the "slow" clock. For a detailed explanation of this problem you should try the Twin Paradox FAQ.
 
Last edited:
Thanks. You need to know what paradox you're worrying about to know what paradox you're worrying about!

The FAQ was useful, the Doppler-shift answer worked for me.
 
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EspressoDan said:
Hi,

I'm reading a book explaining relativity. I previously understood the subject in layman's terms but am now confused.

If you are learning SR from a proper textbook, then it may be an idea to clear your mind of everything you thought you knew about the subject "in layman's terms". It's more than likely that anything you think you already know will turn out to be a hindrance to a proper understanding of the subject.
 
In my experience, layman's guides to special relativity rarely mention the concept of the relativity of simultaneity, or only in passing without much explanation. I personally find that this concept is actually quite integral to developing anything approaching an intuitive understanding of the subject. Without that understanding, everything you learn about relativity will either be understood incorrectly (ie not realizing that *both* sides of the twin paradox see the other's clock tick more slowly), or just sound completely contradictory or perplexing (ie how can they both see the other's clock ticking more slowly? that doesn't make sense!). It's also possibly the hardest concept to really internalize. The idea that there is a single moment that is "now" for everyone everywhere is so instinctually ingrained in us that it becomes very challenging to accept an idea that contradicts that.
 

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