Relative Velocities A & B: 5MPH Each

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of relative velocities, particularly in the context of two objects A and B approaching each other at 5 MPH each. Participants explore the implications of adding velocities at low speeds versus the effects at relativistic speeds, referencing special relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the relative velocity of A and B is not simply 10 MPH, especially at higher speeds.
  • Another participant clarifies that the velocities of A and B should be considered with respect to a third frame C, suggesting that the addition of velocities does not follow simple arithmetic due to relativistic effects.
  • A formula for relativistic velocity addition is provided, indicating that at low speeds, the difference from the simple addition is negligible.
  • One participant notes that while the relative velocity can be considered as 10 MPH from one perspective, from the perspectives of A and B, the velocities are less than 10 MPH.
  • Participants acknowledge that the significant differences in relative velocity become apparent as speeds approach the speed of light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the simple addition of velocities does not hold true at relativistic speeds, but there is no consensus on the implications of this for the specific scenario presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of applying classical velocity addition at relativistic speeds and the dependence on the chosen reference frame. The exact conditions under which the relativistic effects become significant are not fully explored.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in the principles of special relativity, velocity addition, and the nuances of relative motion in physics.

ssope
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A approaches B at 5 MPH
B approaches A at 5 MPH

I am wondering why at very fast speeds, the error would become quite large if you were to say that A and B's relative velocity is equal to 10.
 
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ssope said:
A approaches B at 5 MPH
B approaches A at 5 MPH
I assume you mean something like this:
A moves towards B at a speed of 5 mph with respect to some frame C.
B moves towards A at a speed of 5 mph with respect to some frame C.

I am wondering why at very fast speeds, the error would become quite large if you were to say that A and B's relative velocity is equal to 10.
It's a conclusion of special relativity that velocities do not add simply as V1 + V2. Read all about it: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/velocity.html"

(Edit: I forgot to add the punchline, that the difference becomes marked when speeds approach light speeds. DaleSpam got it.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi ssope, welcome to PF.

The correct formula for adding velocities is called the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity-addition_formula" :

[tex]\frac{v_1+v_2}{\frac{v_1 v_2}{c^2}+1}[/tex]

In your case
[tex]\frac{5+5}{\frac{5 \times 5}{(6.7 \times 10^8)^2}+1} = 9.9999999999999994 \, mph[/tex]

For such low velocities the difference between the real formula and the approximation is undetectable, less than 1 micrometer/century.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi,
A approaches C at 5 MPH
C approaches B at 5 MPH
Then
For C: A and B's relative velocity of approach equal to 10.
For A: the velocity of B is less than 10.
For B: the velocity of A is less than 10.
Regards.
 
Last edited:
Thank you all very much for answering my question.
 

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