Relativistic generalization of Newton’s equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the generalization of Newton's equations of motion to a relativistic framework, particularly in the context of scalar fields and 4-momentum. Participants explore the implications of relativity on classical mechanics and the formulation of equations of motion in relativistic mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to generalize the classical equation of motion, a = -∇θ, to a relativistic version, suggesting the use of 4-momentum and expressing dissatisfaction with the treatment of the 0 component.
  • Another participant asserts that Newtonian physics is valid only within a single inertial reference frame, prompting a discussion on the nature of relativity.
  • A participant confirms that defining the 4-force involves taking the derivative of momentum with respect to proper time, emphasizing the frame-dependent nature of coordinate time.
  • One participant corrects a claim regarding the 0 component of 4-momentum, stating that P^0 = mγ, where γ is the Lorentz factor, and highlights the need for relativistic momentum in the spatial components.
  • Another participant argues against the notion that Newtonian mechanics applies in a single inertial frame, stating that it fails at relativistic speeds regardless of the frame context.
  • A participant introduces the manifestly covariant action principle as a method to derive equations of motion for free particles and discusses how to incorporate interactions with external scalar fields through a parametrization-invariant approach.
  • One participant reiterates the breakdown of Newtonian mechanics at relativistic speeds and emphasizes the importance of consistent frame measurements in equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of Newtonian mechanics in relativistic contexts, with some asserting limitations and others defending its validity under certain conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to generalizing Newton's equations to a relativistic framework.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on definitions and the need for proper transformations when discussing measurements across different inertial frames. There are unresolved mathematical steps in the transition from classical to relativistic formulations.

Zak
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If say you have some scalar field, θ(x^u), where x^u represents the 4-vector coordinates of spacetime, and then the typical classical equation of motion, a = -∇θ, how would one go about 'generalizing' this to a relativistic version? Since F = ma, would you have to write it as d/dt (P^u) where P^u is the relativistic 4-momentum? But since P^0 = m, this means that the 0 component of the 4-vector simply vanishes, and this seems unsatisfactory to me since you're essentially just keeping everything Newtonian. Can anybody shed some light on this?
(sorry for the bad notation)

Thanks in advance
 
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Newtonian physics applies as long as you stay inside one inertial reference frame.
Relativity is all about the differences between observers.

For the general results, you want to look up "relativistic mechanics" and hunt down "equation of motion".
 
Zak said:
Since F = ma, would you have to write it as d/dt (P^u) where P^u is the relativistic 4-momentum?
Yes, this is how you define the 4-force used in special relativity. However, note that the usual thing to do is to define the 4-force as the derivative of the momentum with respect to the proper time of the object, not the coordinate time - which is frame dependent.

Zak said:
But since P^0 = m
This is incorrect. By definition, ##P^0 = m\gamma##, where ##\gamma## is the Lorentz factor. You also have to use the relativistic momentum for the spatial part of the 4-momentum.
 
Simon Bridge said:
Newtonian physics applies as long as you stay inside one inertial reference frame.
This is not really true. Newtonian mechanics breaks down at speeds close to the speed of light regardless of whether you consider only one inertial frame or not.

It is also unclear what you mean by "stay inside one inertial reference frame". Physics applies equally to all inertial frames and any object that exists in one frame exists also in another.
 
The most intuitive way to guess equations of motion is to use the manifestly covariant action principle. For free particles you have
$$S_0=-m c^2 \int \mathrm{d} \lambda \sqrt{\eta_{\mu \nu} \dot{x}^{\mu} \dot{x}^{\nu}},$$
where ##\eta_{\mu \nu}=\mathrm{diag}(1,-1,-1,-1)## is the Minkowski-pseudometric and ##\lambda## an arbitrary scalar parameter to parametrize the world line. The Lagrangian is parametrization invariant, and that's why in fact only 3 equations are independent.

To get the interaction with an external scalar field, the most simple way to get a consistent equation of motion is to use again a parametrization-invariant scalar, and the most simple one is
$$S_{\text{int}}=-\int \mathrm{d} \lambda \Phi(x) \sqrt{\eta_{\mu \nu} \dot{x}^{\mu} \dot{x}^{\nu}}.$$
Then the Euler-Lagrange equations lead to the equations of motions,
$$(m+\phi) \ddot{x}^{\mu}=(\eta^{\mu \nu}-\dot{x}^{\mu} \dot{x}^{\nu})\partial_{\nu} \phi.$$
As you see, thanks to the manifest covariance and the parametrization independence you get the correct constraint condition enabling the on-shell condition for the four-momentum,
$$\dot{x}_{\mu} \ddot{x}^{\mu}=0.$$
 
Orodruin said:
This is not really true. Newtonian mechanics breaks down at speeds close to the speed of light regardless of whether you consider only one inertial frame or not.
Unfortunately I was called away from the computer before I could finish the thought... but that's why the suggestions for what to look for.

It is also unclear what you mean by "stay inside one inertial reference frame". Physics applies equally to all inertial frames and any object that exists in one frame exists also in another.
All quantities should be measured in the same frame... no using measurements from different frames in the same equation without the appropriate transformation.

I won't complete the thought left dangling since (a) good search terms are given, and (b) vanhees has a nice starter.
 
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