Relativistic Redshift and understanding it's approximation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the expression for relativistic redshift and its derivation from a more general formulation involving metric tensors and four-velocities. Participants explore the relationship between the redshift parameter and scale factors in different spacetime metrics, particularly focusing on Robertson-Walker spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an expression for redshift involving metric tensors and four-velocities, seeking to understand its derivation and implications.
  • Another participant clarifies that the expression is invariant and relates to the frequencies measured by the emitter and observer.
  • There is a reference to a PF Insight that discusses the computation related to the expression.
  • Participants discuss the applicability of the redshift formula \(1+z=\frac{a_o}{a_e}\) specifically in the context of Robertson-Walker spacetime.
  • Questions arise about the validity of the redshift formula in other metrics, such as Lemaître-Tolman-Bondi (LTB) and Bianchi spacetimes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the expression's invariance and its relation to frequency measurements. However, there is disagreement regarding the applicability of the redshift formula across different spacetime metrics, indicating multiple competing views.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the scale factors are specific to Robertson-Walker spacetimes in standard coordinates, suggesting limitations in the generalization of the redshift formula to other metrics.

Arman777
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I was reading an article, and I saw this expression.

$$
1+z=\frac{(g_{\mu\nu}k^{\mu}u^{\nu})_e}{(g_{\mu\nu}k^{\mu}u^{\nu})_o}
$$

Where ##e## represents the emitter frame, ##o## the observer frame, ##g_{\mu\nu}## is the metric, ##k^{\mu}## is the photon four-momentum and ##u^{\nu}## is the four-velocity of the source or observer.

Has anyone seen this expression before? I want to understand how we can obtain $$1+z=\frac{a_o}{a_e}$$ from this expression and understand the metric potentials etc. Any reference would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
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Arman777 said:
Where e represents the emitter frame, o the observer frame,
No, they represent the emitter and observer, respectively. The expressions themselves are invariant. However, they equal the frequencies measured by emitter/observer.

Arman777 said:
Has anyone seen this expression before?
g(k,u) is by definition the frequency of wave vector k as measured by an observer with 4-velocity u. The expression follows directly from that and the definition of the redshift parameter z.

Arman777 said:
I want to understand how we can obtain 1+z=aoae from this expression and understand the metric potentials etc. Any reference would be appreciated. Thanks.
This follows directly from making the computation for comoving observers in a Robertson-Walker spacetime.
 
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Orodruin said:
No, they represent the emitter and observer, respectively
hmm. That's what is says in the original article...not my fault. But you are also right.
Orodruin said:
This follows directly from making the computation for comoving observers in a Robertson-Walker spacetime.
In other types of metric (LTB, Bianchi) the ##1+z=a_o/a_e## will not hold then right ?
 
Arman777 said:
In other types of metric (LTB, Bianchi) the 1+z=ao/ae will not hold then right ?
The scale factors are particular for the RW spacetimes in standard coordinates.
 

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