Required force to move mass at a certain velocity in water

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the force required to move a 300/350lb object across the surface of water at a velocity of 20 to 35 mph. Participants explore the effects of drag and the object's shape on the required force, considering both theoretical and empirical aspects of fluid dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the force needed to accelerate a 300lb object to 30 mph but acknowledges that this does not account for drag in water.
  • Another participant points out the error in converting velocity to acceleration and emphasizes that the force required to maintain a fixed velocity is dependent on the object's shape and drag characteristics.
  • A later reply questions the specifics of the object being moved, noting that the type of object (e.g., boat, box, rock) and its state (floating or submerged) are crucial for determining the force required.
  • One participant recommends a book on fluid dynamics for empirical information on fluid drag.
  • Another participant clarifies that the shape of the object influences pressure drag and skin friction, suggesting that the drag force must be calculated to determine the necessary force to maintain speed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the shape of the object and drag are critical factors in determining the force required to maintain velocity. However, there is no consensus on the exact calculations or methods to derive this force, indicating multiple competing views and unresolved aspects of the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of specific details about the object, such as its shape and whether it is planing, which are not fully defined in the discussion. The calculations presented are also noted to be incomplete without considering drag forces.

KpAtch3s
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I'm trying to figure out how much force is required to move a 300/350lb object across the top of water and maintain a certain velocity. My goal is to do a minimum of 20mph but depending on the size of the engine and weight considerations 30-35mph would be ideal.

From some of my research I realized water has 3 different drag coefficients until you are planing on the waters surface.

300lbs and 30mph converted and if I've applied f=ma right then:

f=136.078kgx13.4112m/s^2
f=136.078x179.860
f=24474.98908N

converted to 5502.196lbs of force required to accelerate to 30mph. This doesn't take into account drag created by water. I would say that obviously that much force is not required to maintain that velocity. So I suppose the question should be, how much force is required to maintain 30mph in a fluid environment?
 
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You cannot convert a velocity to an acceleration, those are completely different things (in the same way you cannot convert a mass to time: how many hours are 1kg?). A force that is sufficient to maintain a fixed velocity will also be sufficient to (slowly) reach that velocity over time. This force depends on details of the object shape, there is no easy answer for it if you have a "ship-like" object.
 
KpAtch3s said:
I'm trying to figure out how much force is required to move a 300/350lb object across the top of water and maintain a certain velocity. My goal is to do a minimum of 20mph but depending on the size of the engine and weight considerations 30-35mph would be ideal.

From some of my research I realized water has 3 different drag coefficients until you are planing on the waters surface.

300lbs and 30mph converted and if I've applied f=ma right then:

f=136.078kgx13.4112m/s^2
f=136.078x179.860
f=24474.98908N

converted to 5502.196lbs of force required to accelerate to 30mph. This doesn't take into account drag created by water. I would say that obviously that much force is not required to maintain that velocity. So I suppose the question should be, how much force is required to maintain 30mph in a fluid environment?

Unless we know more about this 'object', it is difficult to give you an answer on how much power will be required to move it at 30 mph. Is this a boat, a box, a rock, what? Is it floating on the surface of the water, submerged, what?
 
Look for the book
Fluid Dynamic Drag - S.F. Hoerner
where you can find all sorts of good, empirical information about fluid drag.
 
Hadn't seen the older reply. It's floating on the surface of the water. Surf board like object.

Thank you for the book recommendation, I'll check it out.
 
This is entirely related to the shape of the object (pressure drag) and the skin friction (related to wetted area), and thusly if the object has planed or not (surf board type craft at 35mph should definitely be planing). And of course drag from the incoming air. So have your fluids set at your desired velocity, and find out what the drag is. This will be your force required, since they are what you need to overcome.
 

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