Misc. Restoring a Butler's Indicator Box

  • Thread starter Thread starter Steve4Physics
  • Start date Start date
AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around restoring a reclaimed butler's indicator box, which features two coils per indicator and an unknown push-button. The dual coils serve distinct functions: one activates a magnetic flag when a remote button is pressed, while the other clears all flags when the local button is pressed. Proper identification of the magnetic poles is essential for functionality, and the system operates on low voltage DC, likely requiring a battery between 2 and 6 volts. The push-button's role is to clear the flags, emphasizing the importance of polarity in the connections. Historical context reveals that Julius Sax & Co, a notable manufacturer of electric signaling devices, ceased operations in 1920, having been a significant player in domestic telegraph instruments and electric bells since the mid-19th century.
Steve4Physics
Homework Helper
Gold Member
2024 Award
Messages
2,747
Reaction score
2,481
TL;DR Summary
Understanding some unusual wiring in a butler's indicator box.
Hi. I’m hoping to restore a reclaimed butler’s indicator box – see photo’:
1737580480434.jpeg


I’ve done a smaller one before and it was electrically trivial – a single coil for each indicator.

But in this one, each indicator is activated by two (differently sized) coils. And on the side of the case there is a push-button, the purpose of which is unknown. See photo’s:


1737580596314.jpeg

1737581563291.jpeg


Does anyone know, or can suggest, why there are 2 coils per indicator and the purpose of the push-button?

Thanks.

(Edit: I would usually get my butler to sort out this sort of thing but they are on holiday.)
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Steve4Physics said:
Does anyone know, or can suggest, why there are 2 coils per indicator and the purpose of the push-button?
One coil sets a magnetic flag when a remote button is pressed, the other clears all the flags when the local button is pressed. You will need to identify the magnetic poles of the horseshoe shaped magnets, by using a small magnetic compass, or a sense magnet. Attraction or repulsion polarity changes the state, with the state being remembered by the changed position of the horseshoe and its field.
 
  • Informative
Likes Steve4Physics
Baluncore said:
One coil sets a magnetic flag when a remote button is pressed, the other clears all the flags when the local button is pressed. You will need to identify the magnetic poles of the horseshoe shaped magnets, by using a small magnetic compass, or a sense magnet. Attraction or repulsion polarity changes the state, with the state being remembered by the changed position of the horseshoe and its field.
Thank you @Baluncore. That makes sense. I hope the values of current needed to make it work properly aren’t too critical - some trial-and-error will be called for.
 
The panel is low voltage DC. I would expect a battery of between 2 and 6 volts would be used. The battery would connect to two terminals in the box. Polarity is important since the clear button must clear, not set, all flags.

I believe there may have been an external bell, or a buzzer, to momentarily attract attention to the indicator board. For such an early design, it may have been in series with the battery.

Advertisement for the indicator.
https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Julius_Sax_and_Co_1922BM.jpg

https://distantwriting.co.uk/appendices.html
"Julius Sax, 108 Great Russell Street, Bloomsbury, London; Domestic telegraph instrument maker. Sax, born in 1825, emigrated from Sagarre (sic), Russia, to London in 1851 after apprenticeship as an optical instrument maker and working for Siemens & Halske in Berlin. He established his own philosophical instrument firm in 1855. Sax had workshops in several parts of London until, in 1864, he took premises at 108 Great Russell Street, where his firm remained for a half-century. He is best known for his domestic electric telegraph instruments, bells and alarms for houses, hotels and offices. His first domestic telegraph was introduced in 1864 and he patented several varieties of electric bell. Sax’s bells were widely used in the head offices of banks and insurance companies in London from the mid-1860s but he did not provide messaging telegraph instruments in any quantity. Sax, a supplier to Michael Faraday, also made more substantial optical and electrical instruments, latterly manufacturing telephones as well as electric bells. He married in 1863 and had four children. After his death in August 1890 Julius Sax & Company became a joint-stock concern in 1892."

https://docs.neu.edu.tr/library/4824543535.pdf
NEAR EAST UNIVERSITY. Lefkosa (Nicosia, Cyprus) - 2004
Faculty of Engineering. Department of Electrical and Electronic Engineering. ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION. Graduation Project EE- 400
Student: Umut Caglar Camoglu. Supervisor: Dr. Kadri Buruncuk.
Page 5.
"Julius Sax began to make electric bells in 1855, and later supplied the telephone with which Queen Victoria spoke between Osborne, in the Isle of Wight, and Southampton in 1878. He founded one of the earliest purely electric manufacturing firms, which exists today and still makes bells and signaling equipment."

That was written in 2004 ... So where is that firm today?
 
  • Informative
  • Love
Likes Steve4Physics and hutchphd
Baluncore said:
The panel is low voltage DC. I would expect a battery of between 2 and 6 volts would be used. The battery would connect to two terminals in the box. Polarity is important since the clear button must clear, not set, all flags.
.
... So where is that firm today?
Wow! Thank you for all that.

Inspired by your research, I found, on the UK government national archives site, that Julius Sax & Co Ltd seems to have been wound-up in 1920.

There is an entry in the “Supreme Court of Judicature: High Court of Justice, Companies Court: Companies (Winding-up) Proceedings”. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5051546
(The term ‘& Reduced’ here apparently means ‘Wound Up’, i.e. legally dissolved.)

Incidentally, if ever you need an instrument for obtaining the correction of lunar distances from the Sun, Julius Sax also made them: https://collection.sciencemuseumgro...he-correction-of-lunar-distances-from-the-sun
 
Some time ago I posted this Raspberry PI DIY Mass Spec using Raman Scattering. It's was something of a cumbersome project though, needing a 3D printer and special heat-resistant plastic giving of carcinogenic fumes during printing. To be blunt it was also not very mobile and interpreting the results was further cumbersome Recently though, I've been told that Arduino, and it's various sensor packages, has matured to the point where it's a usable alternative. Now I realize that a cigarette...
Thread 'Nonlinear rubberband type thing - "k" dropping fast as it is stretched'
What materials can I try in order to get a curve of displacement versus force that looks somewhat like this.. (of course, there would be a small kink around the origin where the ends of the rubberband are closer together than its length, which is not shown here). I am looking for something that will last at least 100 stretch cycles and is not messy, so for example liquid based colloidal stuff won't be suitable. Is there something one can whip up using silicone and some additive, say? Or...

Similar threads

Replies
19
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
3K
Replies
18
Views
3K
Replies
30
Views
3K
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
11
Views
2K
Replies
15
Views
3K
Back
Top