Retraction Math Help: Does a Group Exist with Trivial Retracts?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of groups that are not simple and have only trivial retracts. Participants explore definitions related to retracts, subgroups, and homomorphisms, particularly in the context of specific groups like \(\mathbb{Z}_4\) and \(\mathbb{Z}/p^n\). The conversation includes attempts to identify examples of such groups and the implications of their structures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines a retract and proposes that a subgroup \(K\) can be formed as the kernel of a retraction from a group \(G\) onto a subgroup \(H\).
  • Another participant suggests that \(\mathbb{Z}_4\) is a non-simple group with only trivial retracts, prompting further verification.
  • Some participants discuss the nature of subgroups of \(\mathbb{Z}_4\) and whether they can be retracts based on the existence of homomorphisms.
  • There is a contention regarding the subgroup \(4\mathbb{Z}\) being a subgroup of \(\mathbb{Z}_4\), with one participant asserting it is not.
  • Participants explore the implications of homomorphisms and generators in the context of retracts, questioning the necessity of mapping generators to specific elements in subgroups.
  • One participant reflects on the classification of abelian groups and their relation to retracts, suggesting that non-trivial retracts may arise when groups can be expressed as direct products.
  • Another participant notes that a group with a retract has a normal subgroup, which leads to discussions about semi-direct products in abelian groups.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of subgroups and retracts, particularly regarding \(\mathbb{Z}_4\) and its subgroups. There is no consensus on the existence of a group that meets all specified conditions, and the discussion remains unresolved on several points.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their understanding of homomorphisms and retracts, particularly regarding the conditions under which a subgroup can be a retract. The discussion also reflects uncertainty about the implications of group structure on the existence of retracts.

  • #31
Any direct sum of denumerably many groups will have (at least) denumerably many retracts, and any direct product of denumerably many groups will have uncountably many retracts. The projection maps are retractions.
 
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  • #32
Any direct sum of denumerably many groups will have (at least) denumerably many retracts
That "at least" is worrying me. Any countably infinite direct sum of (nontrivial) groups has uncountably many retracts; one for every subset of the index set. (and possibly more) I suspect that an abelian group cannot have exactly countably infinite retracts... and if I'm wrong, it will still be a tricky business finding an example.
 
  • #33
Hurkyl said:
That "at least" is worrying me. Any countably infinite direct sum of (nontrivial) groups has uncountably many retracts; one for every subset of the index set.
Yeah, you're right.
 

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