Right and left handed amino acids

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of right and left-handed amino acids, their binding properties, and the processes involved in protein synthesis. Participants explore whether amino acids can spontaneously form proteins, the conditions under which this might occur, and the historical context of protein formation in early biological systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether right and left-handed amino acids bind more readily with each other compared to like-handed pairs.
  • One participant asserts that amino acids do not spontaneously combine to form proteins and that the sequence of amino acids is encoded in DNA, requiring cellular machinery for assembly.
  • Another participant states that proteins are composed only of L-amino acids, as the cellular machinery recognizes only these, but acknowledges the possibility of synthesizing peptides with both D- and L-amino acids.
  • Several participants express curiosity about the formation of the first proteins in the primordial soup, questioning how peptide bonds could form without spontaneous reactions.
  • One participant notes that peptide bonds are endothermic and hydrophobic, suggesting that energy input is necessary for their formation, especially in the presence of water.
  • There is discussion about the role of RNA in early protein synthesis, with some proposing that RNA catalysts (ribozymes) may have facilitated peptide bond formation before proteins became central to biological processes.
  • A participant speculates on the emergence of simple RNA forms leading to self-replicating systems, suggesting a mechanism for natural selection to enhance these systems over time.
  • Another participant raises the idea that proteins may not have played a significant role initially, proposing that RNA could have exhibited protein-like properties independently.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the spontaneous formation of proteins and the historical context of protein synthesis. There is no consensus on how the first proteins formed or the role of RNA in this process, indicating multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the limitations of current models regarding the conditions necessary for peptide bond formation and the efficiency of protein folding in vitro, without resolving these issues.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying biochemistry, molecular biology, evolutionary biology, and the origins of life.

Daemach
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In nature, do right and left handed amino acids act like magnets in that right and left bind more readily than left + left or right + right?

Do amino acids bind with each other, creating functional proteins without the help of other molecules/catalysts? At what temperatures/pressures does this process occur most efficiently?

Or do amino acids need to be assembled into proteins using molecular machinery?
 
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Amino acids do not spontaneously combine to make proteins.
The sequence of amino acids necessary to make a protein is encoded in DNA.
These 'instructions' are transcribed as RNA, then this RNA carries the information to specialised 'organelles' (ribosomes) within a cell.
This is where the actual protein assembly takes place.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_biosynthesis
 
Daemach said:
In nature, do right and left handed amino acids act like magnets in that right and left bind more readily than left + left or right + right?
No. Proteins are composed of only L-amino acids because the cellular machinery that makes proteins recognizes only L-amino acids. However, it is possible to synthesize peptides with a mix of D- and L-amino acids.

Daemach said:
Do amino acids bind with each other, creating functional proteins without the help of other molecules/catalysts? At what temperatures/pressures does this process occur most efficiently?

Or do amino acids need to be assembled into proteins using molecular machinery?

Yes, two amino acids will not spontaneously react to form a peptide bond, so catalysts and other molecules are required to aid the process. Although the most practical way of making proteins is to use cellular machinery, small proteins can be synthesized in the lab without using any biological machinery, through a process called solid-phase peptide synthesis).
 
If amino acids do not spontaneously form peptide bonds, how did the first proteins form in the primordial soup?
 
I was wondering about that too. It seems that peptide bonds are endothermic and hydrophobic as well, so the bonding process would require an input of energy. And if there was water present it would have been even more difficult...

How many different amino acids need to assemble in the proper order to create a protein used in a ribosome? And how would the proteins fold properly to become functional? As I understand it, protein folding is extremely inefficient in vitro.
 
Kevin McHugh said:
If amino acids do not spontaneously form peptide bonds, how did the first proteins form in the primordial soup?

Proteins are thought to have come somewhat later in the process of abiogenesis. Current models postulate that an RNA world preceded modern biology based on proteins, DNA and RNA. Proteins would come later after catalytic RNAs evolved the ability to catalyze peptide bond formation.

Daemach said:
I was wondering about that too. It seems that peptide bonds are endothermic and hydrophobic as well, so the bonding process would require an input of energy. And if there was water present it would have been even more difficult...

How many different amino acids need to assemble in the proper order to create a protein used in a ribosome? And how would the proteins fold properly to become functional? As I understand it, protein folding is extremely inefficient in vitro.

As mentioned above, protein synthesis is thought to have originated from a set of RNA catalysts (ribozymes) that evolved the ability to activate amino acids (use energy to bind amino acids to tRNA like molecules) and catalyze peptide bond formation. The ribosome, which catalyzes protein synthesis in modern cells, is thought to be a relic from the RNA world because even though the ribosome is a complex of protein and RNA, only the RNA seems to be involved in catalyzing peptide bond formation.
 
My bet would be on very simple forms of RNA appearing first, and then out of millions of random combinations, one of them happened to be similar to what now is ribosomal RNA. establishing a mechanism by which that RNA and it's derivative protein becomes a self replicating system.
From that point on natural selection gets it's foot in the door and the system becomes not only self replicating, but self-enhancing.
Note, this is not just personal speculation, it is a fairly well supported hypothesis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world
 
Too late to edit the above...
I'm not sure if the protein produced in this scenario has a big role to play, RNA can have protein-like properties just by itself.
The protein could have been just helpful as slimy substrate that holds things together so that more of other RNA chemistry can occur.
 

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