RL circuit with polynomial forcing function solution (units)

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the solution of a differential equation for an RL circuit with a polynomial forcing function. Participants explore the implications of unit consistency in the equation, addressing how to ensure the solution yields results in amperes.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the differential equation and outlines the solution path, including both homogeneous and particular solutions.
  • Another participant identifies a unit inconsistency in the original differential equation, suggesting that the right-hand side should be multiplied by a constant with appropriate units to match the left-hand side.
  • A later post acknowledges an error in the initial differential equation and proposes a corrected version that includes a voltage source, emphasizing the need for consistent units throughout the equation.
  • Some participants agree that the initial differential equation should include a term for voltage that is proportional to time, leading to a revised formulation of the equation.
  • Further contributions detail the revised solution process, including the calculation of constants and verification of units in the final solution.
  • One participant confirms that the units in the complete solution now align correctly, indicating that both terms yield results in amperes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the initial formulation of the differential equation, as participants initially disagree on the correct representation of the forcing function. However, there is agreement on the need for unit consistency and the subsequent corrections made to the equation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the initial problem statement regarding the clarity of the voltage source and its relationship to time. Participants also note the importance of ensuring that all terms in the differential equation have compatible units.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners in electrical engineering or physics who are working on circuit analysis, particularly those interested in differential equations and unit consistency in physical models.

K Murty
Messages
34
Reaction score
17
Hello.
This is the differential equation.

$$
i \cdot \dfrac{R}{L} + \dfrac{di}{dt} = t
$$
My solution path:
Homogenous solution:
$$
r + \dfrac{R}{L} = 0 \\ \\

r = -\dfrac{R}{L} \\ \\

i_{h}(t) = C_{0} e^{ -\dfrac{R}{L} t} \\ \\ $$

Particular solution:

Try $$ y_{p} = at + b \\ \\

y_{p} \dfrac{R }{L } + y_{p}' = t \\ \\

(at + b) \dfrac{R}{L} + a = t \\ \\

at\dfrac{R}{L} = t \\ \\

b \dfrac{R}{L} + a = 0 \\ \\

a = \dfrac{L}{R} \\ \\

b = - \dfrac{ L^2}{R^2} \\ \\ $$

Verifying particular solution:

$$ y_{p} = \dfrac{L}{R} \cdot ( t - \dfrac{L}{R} ) \\ \\

y_{p}' = \dfrac{L}{R} \\ \\

y_{p} \dfrac{R}{L} + y_{p}= t \\ \\

\dfrac{L}{R} \cdot ( t - \dfrac{L}{R} ) \cdot \dfrac{R}{L} + \dfrac{L}{R} = t \\ \\

t - \dfrac{L}{R} + \dfrac{L}{R} = t $$
Boundary conditions given:
$$
\boxed{I(0) = 0 } \text{inital conditions} \\ \\

0 = C_{0} - \dfrac{L^2}{R^2} \\ \\

C_{0} = \dfrac{L^2}{R^2} \\ \\

I(t) = \dfrac{L^2}{R^2} e^{ -\frac{R}{L} t} + \dfrac{ L}{ R} ( t - \dfrac{ L}{ R}) \\ \\

\boxed{i(t) = \dfrac{L^2}{R^2} \cdot e^{( -\frac{R}{L} t)} + \left( \dfrac{ L}{ R}( t - \dfrac{ L}{ R}) \right) \,\,\,\, (\text{A} ) } \,\,\,\, \text{Complete solution} $$
My question is, despite the complete solution fitting the boundary conditions, the units must be amperes, and I don't think the units are amperes. How can i get a solution with the correct units? My solution path seems correct to me as t is a first order polynomial.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Physics news on Phys.org
The problem with the units is right from the start of the ODE

##I\frac{R}{L}+\frac{dI}{dt}=t## (1)

because the left hand side of (1) has units of ##\frac{A}{s}## while the right hand side has units of just ##s## (seconds). So to fix this you must multiply only the right hand side by a constant C which will be just 1 but will have units of ##\frac{A}{s^2}## so ##C=1\frac{A}{s^2}## so the differential equation will be

##I\frac{R}{L}+\frac{dI}{dt}=Ct##(2) and now the units in both sides of (2) are ##\frac{A}{s}##.

(or alternatively you can multiply only the left hand side of (1) by a constant D such that ##D=1\frac{s^2}{A}##.

Your final complete solution will not change at all as number, because it will be just multiplied by C which is just 1, but it will change as units and it will be amperes. (##\frac{A}{s^2}s^2=A## now as it is, the units are ##s^2##).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: K Murty
Delta² said:
The problem with the units is right from the start of the ODE

##I\frac{R}{L}+\frac{dI}{dt}=t## (1)

because the left hand side of (1) has units of ##\frac{A}{s}## while the right hand side has units of just ##s## (seconds). So to fix this you must multiply only the right hand side by a constant C which will be just 1 but will have units of ##\frac{A}{s^2}## so ##C=1\frac{A}{s^2}## so the differential equation will be

##I\frac{R}{L}+\frac{dI}{dt}=Ct##(2) and now the units in both sides of (2) are ##\frac{A}{s}##.

(or alternatively you can multiply only the left hand side of (1) by a constant D such that ##D=1\frac{s^2}{A}##.

Your final complete solution will not change at all as number, because it will be just multiplied by C which is just 1, but it will change as units and it will be amperes. (##\frac{A}{s^2}s^2=A## now as it is, the units are ##s^2##).
I made a mistake in my solution.
The initial DE ACTUALLY given was:
$$
iR + L\dfrac{di}{dt} = t
$$
Multiplying the DE by $$ \dfrac{1}{L}$$
Gives:
$$ i \dfrac{R}{L} + \dfrac{di}{dt} = \dfrac{t}{L} $$
I hurried the solution and forgot to multiply the source term by $$ \dfrac{1}{L} $$
But even without multiplying the entire equation, the initial units are:
$$ V = s $$
Which is wrong. So I think this question means that there is a voltage source which is outputs the voltage equal to the duration of time.
My apologies, the person who gave it to me to solve was not clear about it.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
i will assume $$ t \,\, (V) $$ and solve it again for the source term as $$ \dfrac{t}{L} \,\, \frac{V}{H} $$
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Yes the initial DE has to be ##iR+L\frac{di}{dt}=V_0t## where ##V_0=1\frac{V}{s}##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: K Murty
Delta² said:
Yes the initial DE has to be ##iR+L\frac{di}{dt}=V_0t## where ##V_0=1\frac{V}{s}##
Yes. Here is the solution that was realized through your insight:
$$
V_{0} = \frac{{V} }{ s} \\ \\
i\dfrac{R}{L} + \dfrac{di}{dt} = \dfrac{ V_{0} t}{L} \\
\dfrac{R}{L} + r = 0 \\
r = - \dfrac{R}{L} $$

$$ i_{h}(t) = C_{0} e^{(- \dfrac{R}{L} t )} \\

\text{Particular solution:}$$

$$ i_{p}(t) = at + b $$

$$ (at + b ) \dfrac{R}{L} + a = \dfrac{V_{0}t}{L} $$

$$ at \frac{R}{L} + (a + b) = \dfrac{V_{0}t}{L} $$

$$ at \frac{R}{L} = \dfrac{V_{0}t}{L} $$

$$ \boxed{ a = \dfrac{ V_{0} }{ {R} } } \tag{a}$$

$$ \dfrac{V_{0} }{ {R} } + b \frac{R}{L} = 0 $$

$$ \boxed{ b = - \dfrac{ V_{0} L}{ {R^2} } } \tag{b} $$

$$ i(t) = C_{0} e^{(- \frac{R}{L} t )} + (\dfrac{ V_{0} }{ {R} } t + - \dfrac{ V_{0} L}{ {R^2} } ) \tag{} $$

$$ \text{Initial values to solve for constants}$$

$$ i(0) = 0 \\ \\

0 = C_{0} - \dfrac{ V_{0} L}{ {R^2} } \\ \\

C_{0} = \dfrac{ V_{0} L}{ {R^2} } \\ \\

{ i(t) = \frac{ V_{0} L }{ {R^2} }e^{(- \frac{R}{L} t )} +\dfrac{ V_{0} }{ R } t - \dfrac{ V_{0} L}{ {R^2} } } \\ \\ $$

$$ \boxed{ i(t) = \dfrac{ V_{0} L}{ {R^2} } (e^{(- \frac{R}{L} t )} - 1 ) +\dfrac{ V_{0} }{ R } t } \tag{Complete}
$$
The units work out now:
$$ \frac{ \frac{V}{s} \cdot H }{\Omega^2} + \frac{ \frac{V}{s} \cdot s}{\Omega} = A \\
\frac{V F }{ s} + \frac{V}{\Omega} = A \\
(\frac{ V}{ s} \frac{Q}{V} = \frac{Q}{s}=A) + A = A
$$
Thank you.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
I just checked the units of the complete solution,the first term is ##\frac{V}{s Ohm}\frac{H}{Ohm}=\frac{A}{s}s=A## and the second term
##\frac{V}{s}\frac{s}{Ohm}=\frac{V}{Ohm}=A## so everything looks fine.​
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: K Murty

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K