Rockets in Space: Need for Engines to Change Direction

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Ry122
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Rockets Space
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the necessity of rocket engines in space, particularly regarding their function in changing direction and maintaining orbits. Participants explore the implications of momentum conservation, the effects of atmospheric drag at low orbits, and the operational requirements for different types of rockets and probes in various missions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that rockets use their engines in space primarily to change direction, as there is no air resistance to push against.
  • Others explain that rockets push against their own fuel due to conservation of momentum, likening it to throwing a heavy object on a frictionless surface.
  • One participant notes that low-orbiting rockets experience some drag from the outer atmosphere, necessitating occasional engine boosts to prevent orbital decay.
  • Another participant emphasizes that achieving escape velocity is crucial for rockets, which must do so before fuel runs out, and that operating in space is more efficient due to the absence of air resistance.
  • Some participants discuss the varying requirements for different types of rockets, such as those going sub-orbital, into low orbit, or deep space missions, indicating that the engines serve multiple purposes depending on the mission profile.
  • Questions arise about whether probes turn off their engines after reaching desired velocities, with some indicating that most do, while others mention that certain probes use continuous low-thrust propulsion methods.
  • Participants highlight that engines are also used for maintaining altitude and attitude in orbit, as well as for planned end-of-life operations to manage space debris.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the reasons rockets use engines in space, with no consensus reached on a singular explanation. The discussion remains unresolved on several technical aspects, including the operational specifics of different rocket types and their propulsion needs.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include varying definitions of "high velocity," the dependence on specific mission profiles, and the complexity of orbital mechanics that influence the need for engine use in space.

Ry122
Messages
563
Reaction score
2
Once rockets leave the Earth's atmosphere they would have a high velocity
so how come rockets use their engines when they're in space if there's no air resistance? The only reason I can see why they would need to use them is if they wanted to change direction.
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
The quick answer: It is not pushing against the air. It is pushing against its own fuel! This is due to the conservation of momentum.

Imagine you are on a frictionless ice rink with a big rock. (this is space... no air resistance = frictionless) Now, if you throw the rock to the west, you will slide to the east! The bigger the rock, and the harder you throw it to the west, the more you'll slide in the opposite direction. You can imagine the same effect in space.

You can try this with an office chair and something heavy, like a medicine ball, your little brother, or the giant book of pokemon cards everyone has from when they were popular. Now pick your feet off the ground, and put yourself in an open area, and throw the ball. You move too! You eventually slow down because of friction between the wheels and the ground, but that's the premise for how rockets fly in space.

Alexandre Colavin
 
Last edited:
If you're referring to the Space Shuttle, the Space Station, or other low orbiting rockets, they're at the fringes of the outer atmoshpere and experience some drag. If not for occasional boosts from the rocket engines, their orbits would eventually decay and they would return to Earth (or burn up).
 
Ry122 said:
Once rockets leave the Earth's atmosphere they would have a high velocity
so how come rockets use their engines when they're in space if there's no air resistance? The only reason I can see why they would need to use them is if they wanted to change direction.
Rockets have to reach escape velocity or they will fall back to Earth. That's about 25 times the speed of sound. They must achieve this velocity before they run out of fuel (which happens pretty quickly). That is the primary reason why they thrust, whether or not they are in atmo or in space.


BTW, it is easier to achieve that speed when in space since there's no air resistance. If they tried to achieve that speed while still in the atmo, they'd melt! So, in one sense, it would be more efficient to use their engines in space than in the atmo!


Question for clarity: what rockets have you been watching in particular? There are rockets that go sub-orbital, rockets that go into low orbit, rockets that go into high orbit, rockets that go to the Moon, and rockets that leave the Earth Moon system altogether. They all have different requirements, and the answer to your question depends on which ones you refer to.
 
Last edited:
Ry122 said:
Once rockets leave the Earth's atmosphere they would have a high velocity
so how come rockets use their engines when they're in space if there's no air resistance? The only reason I can see why they would need to use them is if they wanted to change direction.
It really depends on what they want to do. Once the Space Shuttle or a satellite reaches space, it isn't in a proper orbit (basically, the orbit still intersects the atmosphere), so it needs to use its engines to reshape the orbit. For a probe going to the outer solar system, engines are used again for course correction and speed - "high velocity" is a relative term and the distances to be traveled are great, so more velocity is always desirable for deep space missions.
 
For a probe going to the outer solar system, engines are used again for course correction and speed - "high velocity" is a relative term and the distances to be traveled are great, so more velocity is always desirable for deep space missions.

Do the probes turn off their engines once the desired velocity is reached?
 
Ry122 said:
Do the probes turn off their engines once the desired velocity is reached?
Most, yes. But we do have a few that keep their engines on in order to accelerate during the entire trip. Those use ion propulsion, which provides very low thrust for a very long time.
 
Ry122 said:
Do the probes turn off their engines once the desired velocity is reached?
For the most of the time, yes. Vehicles still have to fire their engines for a variety of reasons. Some of them are
  • Maintain attitude/orbit. Some remnants of the Earth's atmosphere exist even at low Earth orbit altitude. The atmosphere extends about 10,000 km above the Earth's surface. Flying through that air slows a vehicle down. The ISS loses about 100 meters of altitude per day, for example. Some vehicles (the ISS, for example) expend fuel to maintain their altitude. They thrust along their velocity vector (thrusters pointing against the velocity vector) to increase the velocity and 45 minutes or so later fire the thrusters again to re-circularize the orbit. Typically they do this whenever the altitude reaches some minimal acceptable value.
    There is no atmosphere and hence no atmospheric drag at geosynchronous altitude. Other perturbative forces (moon, sun, Earth's non-spherical gravity, ...) act to move a vehicle out of geostationary orbit. Vehicles in geosynchronous orbit carry fuel to maintain their orbit.
  • Maintain attitude. The atmosphere and gravity not only generate external forces but also external torques. Vehicles use a variety of techniques to compensate for these torques. Some use fuel to do this.
  • Die gracefully. Vehicles in space are supposed to behave "nicely". This includes end-of-life operations. Vehicles in low Earth orbit typically carry enough fuel to make a planned reentry into the atmosphere, typically ending in the southern Pacific. Most LEO vehicles end there life this way. Sometimes things go wrong, USA 193 (the dead satellite the military recently "shot down"). Vehicles in high orbits are supposed to change to a graveyard orbit. Only about a third of the vehicles in geosynchronous orbits do this. This rest just die at GEO. We have a lot of space junk at GEO altitude that is no long geostationary.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 37 ·
2
Replies
37
Views
6K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
4K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 41 ·
2
Replies
41
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
4K