Roger Penrose's Crazy Idea on the Big Bang

[dm4b]

I was watching a show recently where Roger Penrose explained a new idea he had on the Big Bang. It was very interesting, and I thought I was recording it. Of course, it didn't, now I can't remember exactly what he said, and of course, can't find it anywhere else. Perhaps somebody can feel in the details for me?

His idea was basically cenerted around the accelerating Universe and that it would keep on expanding. It also hinged around the idea that photons, or any massless particle really, does not experience the passage of time.

He went on to say that as the Universe expanded, eventually all matter would be trapped by a Black Hole and the Black holes would evaporate way. Eventually, there would be nothing left in the Universe but cold, cold, radiation, or massless particles that cannot sense the passage of time.

With nothing left in the Universe to experience time (i.e. matter), time itself would cease to exist.

Now, assuming I'm not already totally twisting his ideas around, here is where my memory gets fuzzy.

He then went on to say that without time, there would somehow not be space. I missed his logic entirely on this point. But, to continue, this big empty Universe we would picture at this point, somehow is gone. The infinite expanse of space becomes the infintesimal. And, then you have another Big Bang ... somehow.

So, it's a cyclical model, really.

Does anybody know more about this idea/theory of Penrose, and maybe know where I can go to find out more?

Thanks!
dm4b

 

[bcrowell]

He's published a popular-level book on it, called Cycles of Time. He recently co-authored a paper with an obervationalist claiming to find evidence in the cosmic microwave background to support his theory, but then others reanalyzed the data and found that what they'd seen was a statistical artifact.

 

[dm4b]

Thanks bcrowell. That'll help a bunch for me to find out more.

 

[rogerl]

I was watching a show recently where Roger Penrose explained a new idea he had on the Big Bang. It was very interesting, and I thought I was recording it. Of course, it didn't, now I can't remember exactly what he said, and of course, can't find it anywhere else. Perhaps somebody can feel in the details for me?

His idea was basically cenerted around the accelerating Universe and that it would keep on expanding. It also hinged around the idea that photons, or any massless particle really, does not experience the passage of time.

He went on to say that as the Universe expanded, eventually all matter would be trapped by a Black Hole and the Black holes would evaporate way. Eventually, there would be nothing left in the Universe but cold, cold, radiation, or massless particles that cannot sense the passage of time.

With nothing left in the Universe to experience time (i.e. matter), time itself would cease to exist.

Now, assuming I'm not already totally twisting his ideas around, here is where my memory gets fuzzy.

He then went on to say that without time, there would somehow not be space. I missed his logic entirely on this point. But, to continue, this big empty Universe we would picture at this point, somehow is gone. The infinite expanse of space becomes the infintesimal. And, then you have another Big Bang ... somehow.

So, it's a cyclical model, really.

Does anybody know more about this idea/theory of Penrose, and maybe know where I can go to find out more?

Thanks!
dm4b

What is the exact title of the show? Discovery Channel? I'd try to find it.

 

[dm4b]

Hi rogerl, I wish I could remember. I have Tivo, so I tried searching for it, to see if I could remember the name, so I could try and record it again, but no luck :(

All I remember is the whole show was ideas about the Big Bang, and about what could have possibly have come "before" it. Penrose was just one of the guys that presented his idea.

 

[skydivephil]

There was a BBC horizon documentary called "What Happened Befopre the Big Bang" put that into youtube search and you'll find it. A very good documentary with brief explanations of LGC's big bounce, Ekpyrosis, eternal inflation etc from some big names in cosmology: Linde, Singh, Turok, Smolin, Penrose etc . Sometimes US channels will rescreen Uk docs as their own and vice versa witha change of narrator. I wodner if this si the case here.
As I undersatnd Penrsoe idea known as CCC is that if everything decays into radiation then everyhting is traveling at C. If that's the case then length contraction causes the size of the universe to undergo a rescaling. It effectively has zero size which is equivalent to the beginning of the universe, so the end and the beginning are the same thing and the universe is cyclic.

 

[joeydendron]

I think it was that Horizon: I was watching too.

So is the idea that... because of matter-energy equivalence and the conservation of matter-energy, Penrose's end-state of the universe is effectively all energy (matter-energy decayed to radiation) together in a dimensionless point?

 

[dm4b]

yeah thanks skydivephil - I'm prettty sure that's the one! I'll have to see if I can't get it recorded.

 

[Nabeshin]

I'd just like to point out that all matter will not eventually fall into black holes.