Role of mass and quantum gravitational effects in friction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the role of mass and potential quantum gravitational effects in the phenomenon of friction, particularly at the atomic level. Participants explore the relationship between atomic mass, electromagnetic forces, and the implications of quantum gravity in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that in addition to electromagnetic forces, mass quanta might influence friction at the atomic level, although they do not have a formal theory.
  • Another participant questions the concept of "mass quanta," indicating a lack of clarity and precision in its definition.
  • A participant acknowledges the imprecision in their original post and clarifies that they were referring to the mass of atoms potentially facilitating quantum gravitational effects.
  • Concerns are raised about the relevance of quantum gravitational effects, with one participant arguing that gravity is significantly weaker than electromagnetic forces at atomic scales, suggesting that any quantum corrections would be negligible.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the concept of "mass quanta" and its relevance to the discussion. There is no consensus on the validity of the original premise or the implications of quantum gravitational effects in the context of friction.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in defining key terms and concepts, particularly "mass quanta," which affects the clarity of the inquiry. The relationship between gravitational and electromagnetic forces at atomic scales remains unresolved.

IonReactor
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TL;DR
Friction. Quantum Gravity?
Friction is commonly thought to arise from the electromagnetic forces of the atoms at the boundary between two surfaces in contact. However it occurs to me that, in addition to charge quanta, there are also mass quanta present in this system and they could very well play a role.

Now, I'm just a grad student, this isn't my field, and I'm not proposing that I have a theory about quantum gravity that relates to friction. It's just a thought that I had and I would be very excited to hear the thoughts of anyone here who has some expertise or insight on this idea or who has thought about it before.
 
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IonReactor said:
mass quanta

What do you mean by "mass quanta"?
 
PeterDonis said:
What do you mean by "mass quanta"?
I don't have a precise definition. I realize my original post is incorrect because of this lack of precision and that it's entirely possible that "mass quanta" actually aren't present in this system.

What I really meant was that I was assuming that the mass of the atoms coupled to the small-scale of the system would create a fertile ground for quantum gravitational effects.
 
IonReactor said:
I don't have a precise definition.

Then I don't see how we can have a useful discussion.

IonReactor said:
I realize my original post is incorrect because of this lack of precision and that it's entirely possible that "mass quanta" actually aren't present in this system.

Since you can't even define what you mean by "mass quanta", I don't see how the question is even well-defined. It is like asking if there are florbs present in the system. How would one even go about trying to answer?

IonReactor said:
What I really meant was that I was assuming that the mass of the atoms coupled to the small-scale of the system would create a fertile ground for quantum gravitational effects.

Then why go off into the weeds about "mass quanta"?

As far as quantum gravitational effects are concerned, gravity is really, really, really, really weak on the scale of atoms and molecules. You should be able to calculate, say, the gravitational interaction between two atoms at typical inter-atomic distances, and compare it to the electrostatic interaction between them. You will see that the difference is huge. And any quantum corrections to gravity at this scale would be even smaller.
 
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The OP question, as clarified in post #3, has been answered. Thread closed.
 

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