S6.194.4.12.4.29 Find a nonzero vector orthogonal to plane

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a nonzero vector orthogonal to a plane defined by three points in three-dimensional space, as well as calculating the area of the triangle formed by these points. The conversation includes both theoretical and practical aspects of vector operations and geometric interpretations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest starting by drawing the vectors to gain an intuitive understanding of the problem.
  • One participant defines "orthogonal" as meaning perpendicular, which is relevant to the task of finding the normal vector to the plane.
  • Another participant proposes using the cross product of vectors derived from the points P, Q, and R to find the normal vector to the plane.
  • Participants provide calculations for the vectors PQ and PR, leading to the expression for the normal vector n.
  • There is a calculation presented for the area of triangle PQR, with one participant stating the area is 7/2 and another questioning the reasoning behind this result.
  • Some participants share resources for plotting vectors and performing vector operations, indicating a collaborative approach to understanding the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no clear consensus on the reasoning behind the area calculation, as one participant expresses confusion about the result of 7/2. The discussion includes multiple viewpoints on how to approach the problem and the calculations involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not resolved all mathematical steps, particularly in the area calculation, and there are assumptions regarding the definitions and interpretations of vector operations that remain unexamined.

karush
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$\tiny{s6.194.4.12.4.29}$
$\textsf{a. Find a nonzero vector orthogonal to plane
through the points: }$
$\textsf{b. Find the area of the triangle PQR}$
\begin{align} \displaystyle
&P(1,0,0)& &Q(0,2,0)& &R(0,0,3)\\
%&=\color{red}{\frac{1209}{28} }
\end{align}
$\textit{do what first?}$
 
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karush said:
$\tiny{s6.194.4.12.4.29}$
$\textsf{a. Find a nonzero vector orthogonal to plane
through the points: }$
$\textsf{b. Find the area of the triangle PQR}$
\begin{align} \displaystyle
&P(1,0,0)& &Q(0,2,0)& &R(0,0,3)\\
%&=\color{red}{\frac{1209}{28} }
\end{align}
$\textit{do what first?}$

You could start by drawing the vectors on a graph maybe (this will help with the second part too). This will give you a more intuitive understanding of what's happening. Next, you need to think about what the question means by how it says 'orthogonal'. Do you know what this means and how it applies to the question?
 
orthogonal means perpendicular
 
In finding a non-zero vector orthogonal to the plane we are essentially defining the plane. So, let's find the equation of the plane given the three points P, Q and R.

Let $\hat{n} = \hat{PR} \times \hat{PQ}$ be the vector normal to the plane.

$\hat{PQ} = \hat{OQ} - \hat{OP} = (0\hat{\imath} +2 \hat{\jmath} + 0\hat{k}) - (\hat{\imath} + 0\hat{\jmath} + 0\hat{k}) = -\hat{\imath} +2\hat{\jmath}$

$\hat{PR} = \hat{OR} - \hat{OP} = (0\hat{\imath} +0\hat{\jmath} + 3\hat{k}) - (\hat{\imath} + 0\hat{\jmath} + 0\hat{k}) = -\hat{\imath} + 3\hat{k}$

Now,

$\hat{n} = \hat{PR} \times \hat{PQ} =

\begin{vmatrix}\
\hat{\imath}&\hat{\jmath}&\hat{k} \\
-1&2&0 \\
-1&0&3
\end{vmatrix} = \hat{\imath} \begin{vmatrix} 2&0\\ 0&3 \end{vmatrix} - \hat{\jmath} \begin{vmatrix} -1&0\\ -1&3 \end{vmatrix} + \hat{k} \begin{vmatrix} -1&0\\ -2&3 \end{vmatrix}$

Can you finish it off?
 
Joppy said:
In finding a non-zero vector orthogonal to the plane we are essentially defining the plane. So, let's find the equation of the plane given the three points P, Q and R.

Let $\hat{n} = \hat{PR} \times \hat{PQ}$ be the vector normal to the plane.

$\hat{PQ} = \hat{OQ} - \hat{OP} = (0\hat{\imath} +2 \hat{\jmath} + 0\hat{k}) - (\hat{\imath} + 0\hat{\jmath} + 0\hat{k}) = -\hat{\imath} +2\hat{\jmath}$

$\hat{PR} = \hat{OR} - \hat{OP} = (0\hat{\imath} +0\hat{\jmath} + 3\hat{k}) - (\hat{\imath} + 0\hat{\jmath} + 0\hat{k}) = -\hat{\imath} + 3\hat{k}$

Now,

$\hat{n} = \hat{PR} \times \hat{PQ} =

\begin{vmatrix}\
\hat{\imath}&\hat{\jmath}&\hat{k} \\
-1&2&0 \\
-1&0&3
\end{vmatrix} = \hat{\imath} \begin{vmatrix} 2&0\\ 0&3 \end{vmatrix} - \hat{\jmath} \begin{vmatrix} -1&0\\ -1&3 \end{vmatrix} + \hat{k} \begin{vmatrix} -1&0\\ -2&3 \end{vmatrix}$

Can you finish it off?

That should be

$$\begin{vmatrix}\
\hat{\imath}&\hat{\jmath}&\hat{k} \\
-1&2&0 \\
-1&0&3
\end{vmatrix} = \hat{\imath} \begin{vmatrix} 2&0\\ 0&3 \end{vmatrix} - \hat{\jmath} \begin{vmatrix} -1&0\\ -1&3 \end{vmatrix} + \hat{k} \begin{vmatrix} -1&2\\ -1&0 \end{vmatrix}$$
 
(6,3,2)
 
Yes. The required area is 7/2. Do you see why?
 
Whoops sorry about that. I also forgot to post this website for the OP. A nice simple way for plotting vectors. It also shows addition, subtraction, and cross product of 2 vectors.
 
Joppy said:
Whoops sorry about that. I also forgot to post this website for the OP. A nice simple way for plotting vectors. It also shows addition, subtraction, and cross product of 2 vectors.

yeah very cool I'll start using it here...better than W|A
 
  • #10
karush said:
yeah very cool I'll start using it here...better than W|A

- - - Updated - - -Maybe not better, but definitely easier ;) :).
 
  • #11
greg1313 said:
Yes. The required area is 7/2. Do you see why?

TBH no
 
  • #12
$\triangle{PQR}=\sqrt{6^2+3^2+2^2}/2=\sqrt{49}/2=7/2$
 

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