S8.5.1.64 values of m for region

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the values of \( m \) for which the line \( y=mx \) and the curve \( y=\frac{x}{x^2+1} \) enclose a region. Participants explore the conditions under which these two functions intersect and the implications for the area of the enclosed region.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that both functions are odd and symmetric to the origin, passing through the origin, with the curve asymptotic to \( y=0 \).
  • One participant calculates the derivative of the curve and observes that at the origin, the slope equals 1, suggesting that \( y=x \) is tangent to the curve.
  • Another participant proposes that for closed symmetrical regions in quadrants I and III, the slope \( m \) must satisfy \( 0 < m < 1 \).
  • A different participant derives the intersection points by setting \( mx = \frac{x}{x^2 + 1} \) and concludes that for \( m < 1 \), the lines intersect at three points, enclosing two regions.
  • One participant provides an area calculation for the regions formed when \( 0 < m < 1 \), expressing the area as \( A = 2 \int_0^{\sqrt{\frac{1}{m}-1}} \left(\frac{x}{x^2+1} - mx\right) \, dx = m - (1+\ln{m}) \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that \( m \) must be less than 1 for the line and curve to enclose a region, but there are differing interpretations regarding the exact conditions and implications of this conclusion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about how to solve the problem by calculation and rely on observational estimates. There are unresolved aspects regarding the area calculation and the implications of different values of \( m \).

karush
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$\tiny{s8.5.1.64\p364}$

For what values of m do the line $y=mx$ and the curve $y=\dfrac{x}{x^2+1}$ enclose a region.
Find the area of the regionok I could only estimate this by observation but it looks $m\ne 1$
not sure how you solve by calculation
 
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both functions are odd (symmetric to the origin) and pass through the origin. the curve is also asymptotic to $y=0$.

$\dfrac{d}{dx} \bigg[\dfrac{x}{x^2+1} \bigg] = \dfrac{1-x^2}{(x^2+1)^2}$

at the origin, the slope of the curve equals 1, therefore $y=x$ would be tangent to the curve.

so, to intersect the curve to form closed symmetrical regions in quadrants I and III, the slope of the line must be $0 < m < 1$

AA1F990F-9414-43A3-9E8E-C528ADB8951F.jpeg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ok that helped a lot
 
karush said:
$\tiny{s8.5.1.64\p364}$

For what values of m do the line $y=mx$ and the curve $y=\dfrac{x}{x^2+1}$ enclose a region.
Find the area of the regionok I could only estimate this by observation but it looks $m\ne 1$
not sure how you solve by calculation
Since the problem says "enclose a region" I would just see where they intersect:
$mx= \frac{x}{x^2+ 1}$
An obvious solution is x= 0. If x is not 0 we can divide by x to get $m= \frac{1}{x^2+ 1}$. Multiply both sides by $x^2+ 1$ to get $m(x^2+ 1)= 1$. If m= 0 that is impossible and as long as m is not 0, divide both sides by m to get $x^2+ 1= \frac{1}{m}$. Subtract $1$: $x^2= \frac{1}{m}- 1$. If m> 1 there is no such x. If m< 1 $x= \pm\sqrt{\frac{1}{m}- 1}= \pm\sqrt{\frac{1- m}{m}}$ so the lines cross in three points and enclose two regions. The answer is "all m less than 1" not "all m except 1".
 
Last edited:
karush said:
$\tiny{s8.5.1.64\p364}$

For what values of m do the line $y=mx$ and the curve $y=\dfrac{x}{x^2+1}$ enclose a region.

Find the area of the region

for $x > 0$ and $0 < m < 1$ ...

$mx = \dfrac{x}{x^2+1} \implies x^2+1 = \dfrac{1}{m} \implies x = \sqrt{\dfrac{1}{m} - 1}$

Sum of the areas of both regions in quads I and III ...

$$A = 2 \int_0^{\sqrt{\frac{1}{m}-1}} \dfrac{x}{x^2+1} - mx \, dx = m - (1+\ln{m})$$
 
skeeter said:
both functions are odd (symmetric to the origin) and pass through the origin. the curve is also asymptotic to $y=0$.

$\dfrac{d}{dx} \bigg[\dfrac{x}{x^2+1} \bigg] = \dfrac{1-x^2}{(x^2+1)^2}$

at the origin, the slope of the curve equals 1, therefore $y=x$ would be tangent to the curve.

so, to intersect the curve to form closed symmetrical regions in quadrants I and III, the slope of the line must be $0 < m < 1$

View attachment 10706

well pretty valuable to know that...
 

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