Scientists See Solution to Critical Barrier to Fusion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around recent findings related to challenges in achieving efficient nuclear fusion, specifically focusing on the role of bubble-like islands in plasma that collect impurities and affect density limits. Participants explore the implications of these findings for future experiments and the distinction between physics and engineering in the context of fusion research.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a study from the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory that identifies bubble-like islands in plasma as a factor in the "density limit" problem for fusion reactors.
  • There is a proposal to test the theory by injecting power into these islands to potentially increase plasma density, which could enhance fusion reactor efficiency.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the novelty of the science behind fusion, suggesting that the fundamental science is already established and that the focus should be on engineering solutions.
  • Another participant questions the boundary between engineering and physics, suggesting that while engineering involves searching for optimal solutions, new phenomena discovered during this process can still be considered scientific.
  • It is noted that the existence of cold islands in plasma has been known for some time, and the proposed method of heating them with microwaves is seen as an evolution of existing techniques rather than a groundbreaking discovery.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit differing views on the significance of the recent findings, with some seeing them as a continuation of established knowledge and others viewing them as a potential step forward in fusion research. The distinction between physics and engineering remains a point of contention.

Contextual Notes

There is a lack of consensus on the implications of the findings and the classification of the work as either scientific or engineering in nature. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of the relevance and novelty of the proposed experiments.

Drakkith
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Interesting. According to the following link: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120423143128.htm
An in-depth analysis by scientists from the U.S. Department of Energy's Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory (PPPL) zeroed in on tiny, bubble-like islands that appear in the hot, charged gases -- or plasmas -- during experiments. These minute islands collect impurities that cool the plasma. And it is these islands, the scientists report in the April 20 issue of Physical Review Letters, that are at the root of a long-standing problem known as the "density limit" that can prevent fusion reactors from operating at maximum efficiency.

Gates and Delgado-Aparicio now hope to test their theory with experiments on a tokamak called Alcator C-Mod at MIT, and on the DIII-D tokamak at General Atomics in San Diego. Among other things, they intend to see if injecting power directly into the islands will lead to higher density. If so, that could help future tokamaks reach the extreme density and 100-million-degree temperatures that fusion requires.

What do you all make of this?
 
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zapperzero said:
Angels dancing on pinheads. As I see it, the science needed for fusion has been done a long time ago. It's all engineering from here on out.

I guess it depends on where you draw the line between engineering and physics.
 
Drakkith said:
I guess it depends on where you draw the line between engineering and physics.

Eh. I was being facetious, but only somewhat. Searching a space of possible solutions in for an optimum is what I tend to think of as engineering. Of course, if along the way one stumbles across new phenomena, that is science again, but only of a minor sort, usually :).

This thing you posted about is pure engineering - these relatively cold islands had been known to exist for quite a while. These guys are proposing to heat them up with microwaves, which in turn is a refinement of existing technique.
 

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