'second' partial derivative of a function

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on understanding the concept of second partial derivatives, particularly in the context of a specific function given in a mechanics course. Participants explore the application of the 'grad' operator and the rules of differentiation, including the product rule, as they relate to partial derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the calculation of the second partial derivative of the function $$z = f(x,y) = x^{3}y - e^{xy}$$, specifically regarding the term $$-e^{xy}$$ in the result.
  • Another participant suggests that the confusion arises from not applying the product rule correctly when differentiating the exponential term with respect to $$x$$.
  • A later reply indicates that partial derivatives, while initially seeming complex, are fundamentally straightforward as they follow the same rules as regular differentiation with respect to constant variables.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the basic principles of partial differentiation, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the application of the product rule and the specific calculations involved in the second partial derivative.

Contextual Notes

There is an implicit assumption that participants have a foundational understanding of differentiation, but the specifics of applying the product rule in the context of partial derivatives are not fully resolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students learning about partial differentiation, particularly those encountering second partial derivatives for the first time in a mathematical or physical sciences context.

BOAS
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Hello,

we haven't really covered partial differentiation in my maths course yet, but it has come up a few times in mechanics where the 'grad' operator is being introduced, so I'm trying to learn about it myself. I'm looking at the partial derivatives section in "Mathematical Methods In The Physical Sciences" book by Mary Boas.

I don't understand what is being done when a 'second' partial derivative is taken. This is the example I'm looking at;

Given $$z = f(x,y) = x^{3}y - e^{xy}$$, then

$$\frac{∂z}{∂x} = 3x^{2}y - ye^{xy}$$

$$\frac{∂z}{∂y} = x^{3} - xe^{xy}$$ (I understand this, y and then x are being regarded as constants)

it goes on to say $$\frac{∂}{∂x} \frac{∂z}{∂y} = \frac{∂^{2}z}{∂x ∂y} = 3x^2 - e^{xy} - xye^{xy}$$

I don't understand what has happened here. I thought that this means taking the partial derivative of $$\frac{∂f}{∂y}$$ with respect to $$x$$, yielding $$\frac{∂}{∂x} [x^{3} - xe^{xy}] = 3x^2 - xye^{xy}$$ but this is clearly not correct as it does not account for the extra $$-e^{xy}$$ term.

What am I misunderstanding?

Thanks for any help you can give!

p.s How do I keep my pesky latex in line?
 
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BOAS said:
I don't understand what is being done when a 'second' partial derivative is taken. This is the example I'm looking at;

Given $$z = f(x,y) = x^{3}y - e^{xy}$$, then

$$\frac{∂z}{∂x} = 3x^{2}y - ye^{xy}$$

$$\frac{∂z}{∂y} = x^{3} - xe^{xy}$$ (I understand this, y and then x are being regarded as constants)

it goes on to say $$\frac{∂}{∂x} \frac{∂z}{∂y} = \frac{∂^{2}z}{∂x ∂y} = 3x^2 - e^{xy} - xye^{xy}$$

I don't understand what has happened here. I thought that this means taking the partial derivative of $$\frac{∂f}{∂y}$$ with respect to $$x$$, yielding $$\frac{∂}{∂x} [x^{3} - xe^{xy}] = 3x^2 - xye^{xy}$$ but this is clearly not correct as it does not account for the extra $$-e^{xy}$$ term.

What am I misunderstanding?

Thanks for any help you can give!

p.s How do I keep my pesky latex in line?

For the exponential term, when you take the partial derivative w.r.t. x, you must apply the product rule, since you have xy * exy.
 
SteamKing said:
For the exponential term, when you take the partial derivative w.r.t. x, you must apply the product rule, since you have xy * exy.

aha! In a way I'm glad it was a silly mistake like that.

Thanks :)
 
Partial derivatives seem like a big deal at first, but they're actually extremely simple. Like you said, it's just differentiation with variable constants. All the normal rules of differentiation apply.
 

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