Separating particles in a zero point energy field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of separating particles and antiparticles in a zero point energy field, exploring concepts related to quantum fluctuations, virtual particles, and the generation of antimatter. The scope includes theoretical considerations and experimental implications.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that quantum fluctuations create particle pairs that are usually annihilated, questioning whether forces like electromagnetism can be used to separate these particles.
  • Others clarify that while real particles and antiparticles can be separated using electric and magnetic fields, this process does not involve virtual particles or quantum fluctuations.
  • It is noted that real positrons and electrons can be stored through experiments that require significant energy inputs to create them from gamma radiation.
  • One participant questions the possibility of creating real particles from zero point energy, suggesting a diagram to illustrate their point.
  • Responses indicate that the creation of real particles from zero point energy is not possible, and that the concept of a "ZPE" line in Feynman diagrams is not valid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the creation of real particles from zero point energy, with some asserting it is not possible while others challenge the underlying concepts of virtual particles and their application.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the relationship between quantum fluctuations, virtual particles, and real particle generation, with unresolved assumptions about the nature of zero point energy.

mrmashy
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From my understanding, quantum fluctuations create particle pairs that are usually annihilated. Is it possible to use some kind of force (eg: electromagnetism) to direct and separate antiparticles from normal particles?

I believe experiments have proven that it is possible to store positrons and electrons with a combination of electric and magnetic fields.

If the above is possible, does that mean that hypothetically one could generate anti-matter (eg: positrons) and normal matter (electrons)*while keeping them separated
 
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mrmashy said:
quantum fluctuations create particle pairs that are usually annihilated

This is a heuristic description that has a lot of issues. I suggest reading this Insights article:

https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/misconceptions-virtual-particles/

mrmashy said:
Is it possible to use some kind of force (eg: electromagnetism) to direct and separate antiparticles from normal particles?

If you mean virtual particles and antiparticles, no. Virtual particles are not the kind of thing you can use a force on.

If you mean real particles and antiparticles, yes, you can separate them, but that has nothing to do with virtual particles or quantum fluctuations. See further comments below.

mrmashy said:
I believe experiments have proven that it is possible to store positrons and electrons with a combination of electric and magnetic fields.

Yes, you can do this, but these are real positrons and electrons, not virtual ones; they are not created by quantum fluctuations, they are created by ordinary processes that require large inputs of energy to create real positron-electron pairs out of gamma radiation (photons) and then separate them before they can annihilate each other.

mrmashy said:
does that mean that hypothetically one could generate anti-matter (eg: positrons) and normal matter (electrons)*while keeping them separated

That is what is done in the experiments you describe. See above.
 
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So is it not possible to "create" real particles from zero point energy?

Isn't this diagram possible?

1605923698520.png
 
mrmashy said:
So is it not possible to "create" real particles from zero point energy?

No, it's not possible.

mrmashy said:
Isn't this diagram possible?

No. There is no such thing as a "ZPE" line in any Feynman diagram. And, as has already been said, the whole idea of "virtual particles" is limited in any case and cannot be applied the way you are trying to apply it.
 
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PeterDonis said:
No. There is no such thing as a "ZPE" line in any Feynman diagram.

And, to be pedantic, even if there were, there wouldn't be an arrow on it.
 
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