Separation of variables is possible only in 11 coordinate systems?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the method of separation of variables in mathematical physics, specifically questioning the claim that this method is applicable only in 11 specific coordinate systems. Participants explore the implications of this assertion and the criteria for the applicability of separation of variables.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant recalls a claim that separation of variables is possible in only 11 coordinate systems, listing them but expressing uncertainty about the accuracy of this memory.
  • Another participant suggests that separation of variables requires an orthogonal coordinate system, referencing external sources that discuss this requirement.
  • Some participants humorously question the significance of the number 11, comparing it to cultural references like the number of apostles.
  • There is a mention of the existence of additional coordinate systems beyond the 11 listed, including those used in computer graphics and other mathematical contexts.
  • One participant draws a parallel between the question of coordinate systems and the limited number of space-filling regular polyhedra in 3D, suggesting a philosophical angle to the inquiry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the claim regarding the 11 coordinate systems and the requirements for separation of variables, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the potential for additional coordinate systems that may not be covered by the initial claim, highlighting the complexity and nuances involved in the topic.

Trying2Learn
Messages
375
Reaction score
57
TL;DR
Is such separation possible only in 11 coordinate systems?
I vaguely (strong word there because I can no longer remember the source, but the idea sticks in my head for 30 years now) recall reading (somewhere long forgotten) that method of separation of variables is possible in only 11 coordinate systems.

I list them below:

1.Cartesian coordinates
2.Circular-cylinder coordinates
3.Elliptic-cylinder coordinates
4.Parabolic-cylinder coordinates
5.Spherical coordinates
6.Prolate spheroidal coordinates
7.Oblate spheroidal coordinates
8.Parabolic coordinates
9.Conical coordinates
10.Ellipsoidal coordinates
11.Paraboloidal coordinatesIf this is true, why eleven?
Or is my memory foggy, and this is not true?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
jedishrfu said:
Separation of variables I think needs an orthogonal coordinate system to work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_variables#Curvilinear_coordinates

In the applicability section they mention this requirement briefly with a reference to the MathWorld website.

https://mathworld.wolfram.com/OrthogonalCoordinateSystem.html

This article mentions the 11 coordinate systems of degree two or less in 3D.
OK, but why 11?

There were 12 Apostles, so why not 12 (please forgive my facetiousness, but I am trying to the bottom of this that has bothered me for 30 years)

Why 11 or 8 or 14 or some other number?

Or are there moments in math, where we do not ask such questions?
 
I am neither sufficiently bright nor sufficiently schooled to directly answer your question. But is it not exactly similar to "why are there only 5 space filling regular polyhedra" in 3D. Seems an easier question to ponder.......
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Trying2Learn
hutchphd said:
I am neither sufficiently bright nor sufficiently schooled to directly answer your question. But is it not exactly similar to "why are there only 5 space filling regular polyhedra" in 3D. Seems an easier question to ponder.......
Damn, I forgot about that one. Now my day is ruined.
 
  • Haha
Likes   Reactions: berkeman
Trying2Learn said:
There were 12 Apostles
But Judas Iscariot killed himself
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Trying2Learn
malawi_glenn said:
But Judas Iscariot killed himself
Oh, now that's just great: throw in a singularity and ruin the week
 
i'm sure there are a dozen more with computer graphic coordinates and several different color vector coordinate systems, bipolar 2 stings and a 3D angle, toroidal-elliptic -parabolic, hyperbolic coordinates . etc. but take my wife, please, she is not coordinated ;)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K