Set of Powers Unbound from Above

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that the set S = {a, a², a³, ...} is not bounded from above, given that a > 1. Participants reference the least upper bound property of the reals and explore various approaches to the proof.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss proof by contradiction and the implications of assuming S is bounded above. They explore the use of logarithms, differences between terms, and the least upper bound property.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants offering insights and questioning each other's reasoning. Some guidance has been provided regarding the logical structure of the proof, but there is no explicit consensus on the correctness of the arguments presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note constraints such as the prohibition on using logarithms and the lack of familiarity with Cauchy sequences, which limits some approaches to the problem.

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Homework Statement
Let a > 1 and let S = {a, a2, a3, ...}. Prove that S is not bounded from above.

Relevant theorems
The least upper bound property of the reals and these consequences:
(1) For any real x there is an integer n satisfying n > x .
(2) For any positive real x there is a positive integer n satisfying 1/n < x.
(3) For any real x there is an integer n satisfying n ≤ x < n + 1.
(4) For any real x and positive integer N, there is an integer n satisfying n/N ≤ x < (n+1)/N.
(5) For any real x and e, there is a rational r satisfying |x - r| < e.

The attempt at a solution
I was thinking of a proof by contradiction by I can't think of anything contradictory. Any tips?
 
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If an < k for all n, then what happens when you take logs of both sides?
 
I'm not allowed to use logarithms yet unfortunately, but I like the argument.
 
Look at successive differences between the an's. What can you say?
 
The differences should be increasing. I don't understand how this helps.
 
The following just dawned on me: Suppose S is bounded above. By the LUB property, S has a least upper bound s. Therefore, for any n, an ≤ s but also an+1 = a(an) ≤ s. This latter inequality implies that an ≤ s/a < s. We thus have that s/a is an upper bound smaller than s, which is a contradiction. Ergo, S can't be bounded above.

Is this correct?
 
No, there is a logical error in your proof. The fact that s is the least upper bound for the entire sequence does not imply that there is not some smaller number larger than an for a specific n.

However, you can say that there must exist some specific value N such that s- aN< 1. Now what can you say about aN+1?
 
HallsofIvy said:
The fact that s is the least upper bound for the entire sequence does not imply that there is not some smaller number larger than an for a specific n.
But I didn't state that...I think. Please tell me exactly where the logical error is:
1. Let n be a positive integer.
2. We have that an ≤ s.
3. We also have that an+1 ≤ s.
4. Thus, we have that an ≤ s/a.
5. Since n is arbitrary, an ≤ s/a for all n.
6. Ergo, s/a < s is a lower bound of S. Contradiction.
However, you can say that there must exist some specific value N such that s- aN< 1.
How? Which of the consequences I that I wrote in the first post are you using to deduce this?
 
I don't see anything wrong with that.

By the way, my previous post was hinting towards a proof of the fact that {a^n} isn't Cauchy, hence not convergent, hence cannot be bounded (because it's monotone).
 
  • #10
Ah. Unfortunately I haven't dealt with Cauchy sequences yet so I can't use any of its results.
 

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