Setwise stabilizer of a finite set is a maximal subgroup of Sym(N)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the setwise stabilizer of a finite set within the context of the symmetric group on natural numbers. Participants are exploring a proof regarding the maximality of this subgroup and addressing various aspects of notation and definitions involved in the proof process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a proof strategy for showing that the setwise stabilizer \( S_{\{A\}} \) is a maximal subgroup of \( S \) by considering elements outside of \( S_{\{A\}} \).
  • Another participant questions the logic of the proof, specifically how elements not in \( S_{\{A\}} \) can still relate to \( A \) and seeks clarification on the notation used for subgroup generation.
  • A third participant suggests a different interpretation of the context, inquiring whether \( N \) is being considered under multiplication, indicating a potential misunderstanding of the group structure.
  • The original poster clarifies that \( N \) is treated as a set and provides a revised definition of \( S_{\{A\}} \) to address confusion regarding the notation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the proof strategy and notation, indicating that there is no consensus on the approach or the definitions being used. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the proof of maximality.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the clarity of notation and definitions, particularly concerning the subgroup generation and the relationship between elements of \( S \) and \( S_{\{A\}} \). The discussion also reflects uncertainty about the interpretation of \( N \) and its implications for the proof.

ihavenoidea
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So I'm reading a paper which assumes the following statement but I would like to be able to prove it.

Let [tex]S[/tex] denote the symmetric group on the natural numbers.

If [tex]\emptyset\subset A \subset \mathbb{N}[/tex] then [tex]S_{\{A\}}=\{f\in S:af\in a,\;\forall{a}\in A\}$[/tex] is a maximal subgroup of [tex]S.[/tex]

Here is how I would like to prove it. I select [tex]f\in S\setminus S_{\{A\}}.[/tex] I want to show that [tex]\langle S_{\{A\}}, f \rangle = S[/tex], otherwise we have a contradiction. So i take [tex]g\in S[/tex]. If [tex]g\in S_{\{A\}}[/tex] or [tex]g=f[/tex] we are done so assume [tex]f\neq g\in S\setminus S_{\{A\}}.[/tex] How can I show that [tex]g\in \langle S_{\{A\}}, f \rangle[/tex]? I had thought about doing something like finding [tex]h\in\langle S_{\{A\}}, f \rangle[/tex] such that [tex]gh\in S_{\{A\}}[/tex] so that then [tex]g=ghh^{-1}\in\langle S_{\{A\}}, f \rangle[/tex] but I can't seem to get it to work. Can anyone help?
 
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If f isn't in S_{A} then how can af be in S_{A} and for that matter A? Also, I'm a little uncomfortable with your notation. By <S_{A},f> what exactly do you mean? Are you trying to say the subgroup S_{A}U{<f>}, or in words the subgroup S_{A} union the subgroup generated by f?
 
Also are you talking about N under multiplication? If so I would start by acknowledging that f:N--->S is at least a homomorphism
 
I am talking about N as a SET. So S=Sym(N) is the set of permutations on a countably infinite number of points enumerated by N.

The notation is all standard. The angled brackets denote "the group generated by" so above I mean the group generated by:
[tex]S_{\{A\}}[/tex] and [tex]f[/tex].

To avoid the confusion that the use of f has caused, replace the above definition of [tex]S_{\{A\}}[/tex] by:

[tex]S_{\{A\}}=\{q\in S:aq\in A,\;\forall{a}\in A\}$[/tex]

(All maps are written on the right).
 

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