Should the Feynman graph for muon decay include an arrow on the W boson?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on whether the Feynman graph for muon decay should include an arrow on the W boson. Participants explore the implications of including or excluding the arrow in terms of particle interpretation, charge flow, and diagram representation.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions their professor's assertion that including an arrow on the W boson is incorrect, suggesting a need for further verification.
  • Another participant argues that the diagrams are identical and that the professor's choice is based on a perspective of cause and effect.
  • A different participant asserts that the W boson does not get an arrow because it is not a fermion.
  • Some participants contend that including an arrow on the W boson can represent charge flow and is useful for distinguishing charge and momentum in Feynman diagrams.
  • It is mentioned that Feynman diagrams can represent an infinite number of graphs with various time-orderings, complicating the interpretation of arrows.
  • One participant emphasizes that not including the arrow avoids confusion and explicitly represents the diagram as a single entity.
  • There is a consensus that fermions must have arrows to avoid mathematical errors, such as dropping minus signs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and implications of including an arrow on the W boson in the Feynman graph for muon decay. No consensus is reached regarding the correctness of including the arrow.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the discussion involves interpretations of Feynman diagrams, charge flow, and the representation of particles in quantum field theory, which may depend on specific conventions and contexts.

nonequilibrium
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Hello,

The Feynman graph of muon decay is
attachment.php?attachmentid=45391&stc=1&d=1332436463.gif

and I asked my professor if we could also write
attachment.php?attachmentid=45392&stc=1&d=1332436463.gif

and he said no, because then out of nothingness an electron and an (anti)electron-neutrino would appear and send out a boson to the muon.

However, I was not very convinced, so I wanted to double check here. Thank you!
 

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Those diagrams are identical. Because the W^+ is the antiparticle of the W^-, the direction of the momentum in the Feynman graph relates them. Your professor is really just choosing the option that makes the most sense from the point of view of cause and effect.
 
But if they're identical, isn't his choice illusory?
 
The W doesn't get an arrow. It's not a fermion. Simple as that.
 
mr. vodka said:
But if they're identical, isn't his choice illusory?

As a practical matter we only have to consider one of those diagrams, not both. The first makes complete sense as a decay process. The second has a stranger interpretation. There is a certain about of bias, completely reasonable in my opinion, to choose the first. From the point of view of getting a number out at the end of a computation, it doesn't matter. Feynman was quite fond of the interpretation of an antiparticle as the particle traveling backwards in time. It is probably the case that always drawing diagrams with particles traveling forwards in time could avoid some confusion at some point, but it is not necessary if you're completely consistent.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
The W doesn't get an arrow. It's not a fermion. Simple as that.

Actually, that's not correct. The arrow on the W boson represents "charge flow". And it is fine to include it, even though it is not a fermion. Indeed, when you have charged bosons, it is useful to include arrows to make sure to distinguish charge and momentum flow in a Feynman diagram (it could lead to minus signs).

The point is that (as fzero correctly mentioned) both of these diagrams are identical diagrams! Remember that in Feynman's perturbation theory (with the +i\epsilon in the propagator) a single Feynman Diagram represents an infinite number of graphs where things happen in various time-order. The choice of Feynman propagator then picks out the correct time-ordered contributions. Feynman diagrams are more slick than many people give them credit for!

A nice description of this is in the relatively older text, "Quantum Field Theory" by Mandl and Shaw (see, for example, Sec 4.4 of the "Revised Edition").
 
But it's normal not to include the arrow because it's completely unnecessary - and confusing - as you point out, it's one diagram, not two. And without the arrow, it's explicitly one diagram. I don't ever think I have seen anyone stick an arrow on the W in this process. Ever.

Fermions, however, must have arrows, or, as you say, you will drop a minus sign.
 

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