SI Units Lengths: Defined by Light Speed

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definitions of SI units, particularly the meter, and the implications of using the speed of light as a basis for these definitions. Participants explore the historical context and potential changes to the SI system, touching on the stability and universality of the current definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose redefining the meter based on the speed of light, suggesting it would provide a more universal standard.
  • Others argue that the current SI units are well-defined and based on constants that do not easily change, such as the definition of the second based on caesium-133 transitions.
  • A participant questions the practicality of changing the definitions of SI units, acknowledging the political and social challenges involved.
  • There is a mention that the kilogram is currently defined by a physical object, which may be subject to change in the future.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the definitions of other units, initially believing they were not based on physical constants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the necessity and feasibility of redefining SI units based on the speed of light. While some see merit in the proposal, others maintain that the current definitions are sufficient and stable.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in understanding the implications of changing the kilogram and the historical context of SI unit definitions. Some participants may not fully grasp the current definitions based on physical constants.

xeryx35
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After the discovery of the speed of light, it may have made a bit of sense to redefine the meter as \frac{1}{300,000,000} the distance light travels in a second. I understand that larger units like the light year may have been distorted a bit, and that conversions would be required for such areas, or others where precise measurement may have been required. But my point is that the current SI system is a bit arbitrary(fortunately less so than the so-called "customary" system) and using the speed of light in a vacuum would base it upon a universal constant, not something that can easily change.
 
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I don't see how any of the SI units can easily change.
 
Drakkith said:
I don't see how any of the SI units can easily change.
True. It may be a difficult decision to change old meters into new meters, from a political and social standpoint. But do you think that, if it had been an easier process, that it would make sense?

Maybe the new SI definitions could be:

Second: time taken by light to travel 300,000,000 meters
Meter: Distance trageled by light in \frac{1}{300,000,000}second.

The units of weight could be modified, but a gram will still be the mass of water in a cube 1 new centimeter in length, and the Kelvin scale could be used for temperature, with the Celsius scale being used in a non-scientific context.
 
xeryx35 said:
After the discovery of the speed of light, it may have made a bit of sense to redefine the meter as \frac{1}{300,000,000} the distance light travels in a second. I understand that larger units like the light year may have been distorted a bit, and that conversions would be required for such areas, or others where precise measurement may have been required. But my point is that the current SI system is a bit arbitrary(fortunately less so than the so-called "customary" system) and using the speed of light in a vacuum would base it upon a universal constant, not something that can easily change.
It is already like this.

"The meter is the length of the path traveled by light in vacuum during a
time interval of 1/299 792 458 of a second."

http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP330/sp330.pdf
page 18
 
All of the SI units are very well defined using things that do not easily change, that is what I meant as a response to your statement:

...using the speed of light in a vacuum would base it upon a universal constant, not something that can easily change.

For example, the second is defined as: the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom.

The Kilogram is currently the only SI unit that is defined using an actual object instead of fundamental physical properties. However, that may change in the near future. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram

So other than changing Kilogram, I don't really see what you are getting at.
 
Drakkith said:
All of the SI units are very well defined using things that do not easily change, that is what I meant as a response to your statement:
For example, the second is defined as: the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom.

The Kilogram is currently the only SI unit that is defined using an actual object instead of fundamental physical properties. However, that may change in the near future. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram

So other than changing Kilogram, I don't really see what you are getting at.

Oh, sorry, I did not know that the other units were based off of physical constants. In that event only kilograms need modification.
 
xeryx35 said:
Oh, sorry, I did not know that the other units were based off of physical constants. Sorry.

Yep, you can click on the units here to get to their articles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_unit
 

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