Signal Processing: DFT spectrum of sinusoid signals

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the discrete Fourier transform (DFT) and its application to sinusoidal signals, specifically addressing the presence of two peaks in the DFT spectrum: one at ## m ## and another at ## N - m ##. Participants explore the mathematical reasoning behind this phenomenon and its implications in signal processing.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why there are two peaks in the DFT spectrum for a sinusoidal signal, suggesting that ## m ## represents the number of samples per cycle.
  • Another participant explains that the second peak at ## N - m ## corresponds to the negative frequency component, which arises from the symmetry in the Fourier transform.
  • A different perspective suggests shifting the time window to analyze the frequency components, indicating that the negative frequency can be interpreted as a conjugate phase in the frequency domain.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the relationship between the ## N - m ## peak and the periodic nature of the DFT.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the existence of two peaks in the DFT spectrum but express differing views on the underlying reasons for the second peak at ## N - m ##. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact logic and implications of this phenomenon.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the mathematical form of the DFT and its properties, but there are unresolved assumptions about the implications of periodicity and the interpretation of negative frequencies.

Master1022
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TL;DR
Why does the DTFT of a sinusoidal signal with an integral number of cycles in ## N ## samples yield a spectrum with two peaks
Hi,

I was recently reading about the discrete Fourier transform and its application to a basic sinusoidal signal. If we know that it has an integer number of cycles in ## N ## samples (and thus no leakage), why would there be two peaks in the spectrum: one at ## m ## and another at ## N - m## (as shown in the image below)? I am guessing that ## m ## is the number of samples per cycle. It makes sense that there is a peak at ## m ##, but it isn't immediately clear why there should be one at ## N - m##. I can see the apparent symmetry of the term, but cannot intuitively reason why it should be present. I would appreciate any help or guidance as to why this is the case.

Screen Shot 2021-03-24 at 8.55.03 AM.png
By looking at the mathematical form of the DFT, we have:
F(n) = \sum_{k = 0}^{N - 1} f[k] e^{-j\frac{2\pi n}{N} k}

so would the following be correct?
F(m) = \sum_{k = 0}^{N - 1} f[k] e^{-j\frac{2\pi m}{N} k}
F(N - m) = \sum_{k = 0}^{N - 1} f[k] e^{-j\frac{2\pi (N - m)}{N} k} = \sum_{k = 0}^{N - 1} f[k] e^{-j2 \pi k(1 - \frac{m}{N})}
\rightarrow \sum_{k = 0}^{N - 1} f[k] e^{j2 \pi k \frac{m}{N}} e^{-j2 \pi k} \rightarrow \sum_{k = 0}^{N - 1} f[k] e^{j2 \pi k \frac{m}{N}}
because ## e^{-j2 \pi k} = 1 ## for an integer ## k ##. Then somehow due to symmetry, this causes the peak at ## N - m## ( I am not really sure on the exact logic for this last part).

Thanks in advance.
 
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What you plotted is the absolute value of the complex FT of ##\displaystyle {\sin mx = {1\over 2i} \Bigl (e^{imx} - e^{-imx}\Bigr )} ##.
You get one peak at m and one at -m . That last one shows up at ## N - m ##

Example: 16 samples of sin(x)
1616597463812.png
Excel | Data | Data Analysis | Fourier transform

1616597601356.png
##\quad##
1616597524545.png
If you have Excel ( ?:) :smile: ) or some other (F)FT software, play with it ! It's fun !

##\ ##
 
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Master1022 said:
It makes sense that there is a peak at m, but it isn't immediately clear why there should be one at N−m. I can see the apparent symmetry of the term, but cannot intuitively reason why it should be present.
You are analysing the time window from 0 to 2π = N.
Consider instead shifting the time window to be -π to +π.
The second peak will then have the negative frequency, -m.
You cannot separate the positive and negative frequencies, but they will have conjugate phase.
Reversing the order of samples in time is equivalent to taking the conjugate of the phase in the frequency domain.
 
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Thank you very much @BvU and @Baluncore for your replies! Yes that is correct, I usually just plot the magnitude of the spectrum to avoid worrying about the +- signs...

Does the ## N - m ## peak also have to do with the periodic nature of the DFT?

Also, thanks for the heads up about Excel @BvU - I didn't know it was possible to do that there. Will definitely go give it a go!
 
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