Simple Energy Levels confusion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the behavior of energy levels in hydrogen atoms compared to a particle in a box model. Participants explore the differences in energy level spacing as they increase and seek clarification on why diagrams suggest energy levels get closer together at higher energies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that energy levels in hydrogen appear to get closer together at higher energies, contrasting with the particle in a box model where energy levels increase as E, 4E, 9E, 16E, suggesting larger gaps between levels.
  • Another participant points out that the potential for a hydrogen atom differs from that of a particle in a box, implying that different potentials lead to different energy level structures.
  • A question is posed about whether energy levels generally get closer together as one moves farther from the atom, indicating a potential trend in atomic and molecular energy levels.
  • A later reply confirms that energy levels do indeed get closer together at higher energy levels, referencing Bohr's semiclassical model and providing a specific equation for hydrogen's energy levels.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of energy levels in hydrogen versus a particle in a box, with some agreeing on the trend of energy levels getting closer together at higher energies, while others highlight the differences in underlying potentials that lead to these observations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the apparent contradictions between the models and the observed behavior of energy levels, and assumptions regarding the potentials involved remain unexamined.

alexgmcm
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In the famous diagrams of the energy levels of a hydrogen atom it seems that the energy levels get closer together as they increase such that the difference in energy between higher energy levels is less than between lower ones. But working from the electron in a box approach we get the equation:

[tex]E_{n} = \left(\frac{h^2}{8mL^2} \right) n^2[/tex]
where n = 1,2,3...

So that would suggest that the energy levels would go E, 4E, 9E, 16E etc. which would mean that the gaps between the energy levels would increase? But that's different to most of the diagrams I've seen like http://www.avogadro.co.uk/light/bohr/atomspec.gif" which seem to show the energy levels getting closer together.

I found http://imgur.com/OYSV4.png" in my textbook which also suggests that the energy levels should get further apart not closer together. I know that is only considering rotational and not vibrational energies, but the vibrational energies are equally spaced and so would not lead to closer energy levels in combination.

I'm sure I've just missed something quite basic here which is so basic the books fail to mention what it is, so can someone please help?
 
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The potential for a hydrogen atom is different than the potential for particle in a box. Different potentials give you different energy levels.
 
So in general for atoms and molecules, do the energy levels get closer together as you move farther apart from the atom. That is, do the differences in energy between the energy levels decrease at higher energy levels?
 
alexgmcm said:
So in general for atoms and molecules, do the energy levels get closer together as you move farther apart from the atom. That is, do the differences in energy between the energy levels decrease at higher energy levels?
Yup. You can perform a preliminary derivation of the relation between the energy levels and 'n' using Bohr's semiclassical model. That should be available in any standard text. For the hydrogen atom, the relation is
[tex]E_{n} = - \frac{13.6}{n^{2}} eV[/tex]
 

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