Simple Question About Term(s) re: Fermat

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Janosh89
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Prime numbers
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the representation of odd integers as the difference of two squares, a concept attributed to Fermat. Participants explore the mathematical terms associated with this representation, historical context, and related theorems, including Fermat's Sum of Two Squares theorem. The scope includes theoretical and historical aspects of mathematics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Historical
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about a specific term for the mathematical expression that, when added to Z, results in a perfect square, y².
  • Another participant references Fermat's Sum of Two Squares theorem but notes the absence of a specific name for the addends involved.
  • Some participants discuss the historical progression of these ideas, suggesting that Fermat's work may have been influenced by Gauss, while also noting the timeline of their contributions.
  • There is a mention of the difference of two squares and its potential attribution to earlier mathematicians like Pythagoras or Euler, with a request for clarification on its historical roots.
  • One participant presents a simple algebraic expression related to the difference of two squares but questions whether it has a formal name.
  • Another participant introduces a connection between the forms 12n+1 and 12n+5 and prime numbers, suggesting a unique relationship that diverges from the more commonly referenced 4k+1 form.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of these forms for identifying prime numbers, with specific examples provided to illustrate the points made.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the historical attribution of concepts and the existence of specific terminology for mathematical expressions. No consensus is reached regarding the terminology or the historical context of the difference of two squares.

Contextual Notes

Some participants acknowledge gaps in their historical knowledge and the complexity of the relationships between different mathematical forms and prime numbers. The discussion reflects a variety of interpretations and assumptions about the mathematical concepts involved.

Janosh89
Messages
61
Reaction score
19
Since Fermat, the French magistrate & noted mathematician, expounded :
all odd integers ,(2n+1) where n≥0, are representable by the difference of TWO squares
[1= 1[SUP]2[/SUP] -02 ]
so 3 = 22-12
5 = 32-22
7 = 42-32
and generally,
Z =y2-x2
and Z + x2= y2 where y= Z/2 +1/2
[even integers of the form 4n are representable where y=Z/4+1 and x=y-2]

is there a term, in English language, to describe the x2 mathematical term
that ,when added to Z, forms a perfect square, y2?
Thanks to anyone who will give me a definitive answer - I feel it should start with ad..
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
I think Fermat was following on from Gauss. Of course, Fermat's proof regarding the SUM of two squares, a2+ b2 for positive integers of the form 12n+1 or 12n+5 ,gives us an equation for these
a2+ b2=y2- x2
I have omitted 12n+9 as they have multiple values, for each one, of y and x -at least one where
y=x+3
 
Last edited:
Janosh89 said:
I think Fermat was following on from Gauss. Of course, Fermat's proof regarding the SUM of two squares, a2+ b2 for positive integers of the form 12n+1 or 12n+5 ,gives us an equation for these
a2+ b2=y2- x2
I have omitted 12n+9 as they have multiple values, for each one, of y and x -at least one where
y=x+3
Fermat lived about 200 years before Gauss.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: StoneTemplePython
Thanks for putting me straight. My history of mathematical thought, like my diminishing memory capacity,
needs outside intervention.
Is the difference of two squares attributable to Pythagoras, Euler, ; not amongst the Elements, surely?
Please put me out of my misery. !
 
I think all OP is looking for is

##\big(k+1\big)^2 - k^2 = \big(k^2 + 2k +1\big) -k^2 = \big(k^2 - k^2 \big) + 2k +1 = 2k +1##

It could be a named theorem, but I'm thinking its too simple to be named.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: jbriggs444
It obviously came into general mathematical thought very early on.
My point ,if you can call it that, about 12n+1, 12n+5 is that it directly relates to prime numbers; rather than the textbook usually given 4k+1.
I suppose I should say 1(MOD 4).
For 12n+5 integers , the only possible "target" value of y, for y2, is y=3(MOD 6) where x is 2(MOD 6) or 4(MOD 6)
so for y=15
y2=225
29 = 225-142 Prime, since this is unique and no other target ,3(MOD 6) when squared can be achieved for any integer x
125= 225-102
161= 225-82
209= 225-42
221= 225-22
so this is obviously a first stage sieve, probably the only benefit it offering is that it eliminates
early on potentially large prime factors early on, close to the square root of Z, ≅ y
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
908
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
6K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K