Small back hole merging more massive body

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothetical scenario of a small black hole, with a mass of a few solar masses, merging with a much more massive star, potentially exceeding 100 solar masses. Participants explore the implications of this interaction, including the fate of the black hole and the massive star, and whether they would merge into a larger black hole or coexist separately. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects, simulations, and the dynamics of such events.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the small black hole could merge with the massive star, potentially leading to the formation of a larger black hole with the combined mass.
  • Others argue that the black hole would remain within the massive star and could feed on it, though the timescale for this process is debated.
  • A participant suggests that the merging process could occur on the order of seconds, citing simulations as evidence.
  • Another participant challenges this view, stating that the merging process could last for millions of years due to radiation pressure counteracting gravitational pressure.
  • One participant points out that the scenario described by the original poster involves a different process than the one illustrated in simulations, emphasizing that the black hole forms from the collapse of the star's core rather than merging with an existing black hole.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the timescale of the merging process and the nature of the interaction between the black hole and the massive star. There is no consensus on whether the merging happens quickly or over a longer duration, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of the interaction.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of merging and the assumptions made about the initial conditions of the black hole and the massive star. The discussion also highlights the complexity of the dynamics involved in such astrophysical events.

Gerinski
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Hi. Let's say we have a black hole of limited mass, say a few solar masses, and it encounters a much more massive object which is not collapsed into a black hole, say a very massive star, in principle it seems that some giant stars have been detected with masses over 100 solar masses.

So let's imagine that the small black hole meets such a very massive star, and that their combined mass will not produce a black hole of the sum of their masses.

What would happen if both bodies collide and merge? will the small back hole "return" to a non-black hole mass merging with the massive star? will it remain as a black hole residing into the large star and slowly feed on it, eventually eating up the very massive star and producing a very massive black hole with the sum of both their masses? will they remain as separate entities, the small black hole and the large star living together next to each other?

Tx
 
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Gerinski said:
will it remain as a black hole residing into the large star and slowly feed on it, eventually eating up the very massive star and producing a very massive black hole with the sum of both their masses?
This.
If it happens in the very early universe, it leads to a quasi-star.
 
Gerinski said:
will it remain as a black hole residing into the large star and slowly feed on it, eventually eating up the very massive star and producing a very massive black hole with the sum of both their masses?

I agree with mfb that this is what will happen. The only thing I would add is to remove the word "slowly". Some of the mass of the star will be ejected in the form of jets and some will be incorporated into the black hole, but I believe that the time scale for all of this to happen is on the order of seconds.
 
Not even the initial merging happens in seconds. The quasistar can live for (up to) millions of years, radiation pressure cancels gravitational pressure.
 
mfb said:
Not even the initial merging happens in seconds. The quasistar can live for (up to) millions of years, radiation pressure cancels gravitational pressure.

The OP asked what happens when a black hole of a few solar masses collides with a massive star of 100 solar masses. You think the resultant object can last for millions of years? I doubt this. I will look for simulations of this type of event.
 
My answer was based on simulations like this one. This is a simulation of what happens when the core of a massive star (order 100 solar masses) collapses to form a black hole of a few solar masses. This results in a few solar mass black hole inside of a ~100 solar mass star, which is similar to the situation the OP asked about. Look at the resulting simulation. Part of the surrounding star is ejected, and part falls into the growing black hole, and the whole process takes less than 1 second. I think the collision of a few solar mass black hole with a ~100 solar mass star would have a similar time scale. How could it possibly last for millions of years?
 
phyzguy said:
This is a simulation of what happens when the core of a massive star (order 100 solar masses) collapses to form a black hole of a few solar masses.
That is a completely different process, the collapse happens while no black hole exists, and without anything else that would stop the collapse. The black hole is the result of the collapse, not vice versa.
 

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