Smart or Attractive? Biology's Debate on Selection

[Astronuc]

Better. Can you get it over the tips of his ears?

Front or back?

I guess you can't see the ponytail from this angle.

Umm - work with me here, Evo - use some imagination. I'm so close.

 

[Evo]

Front or back?

I guess you can't see the ponytail from this angle.

Umm - work with me here, Evo - use some imagination. I'm so close.

Sides, facing front.

 

[Astronuc]

Are we there yet?

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8540/dilbertwhair2jl6.jpg​

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[Evo]

Are we there yet?

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8540/dilbertwhair2jl6.jpg​

Oh,[/URL] OH. We're talking now baybee. Put a copy of the Heimskringla in his hands, a glass of sherry in the other. (wait, can you dress him in a silk smoking jacket and an ascot? :!)

 

[Astronuc]

Ok, Evo, you've complained about the guys whom you dated were not romantic.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8002/dilbertwhairbeardgoodiewr1.jpg​

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Well how about flowers, and basket of goodies including dark chocolate, chocolate with nuts, and champagne?

 

[Astronuc]

Oh, OH. We're talking now baybee. Put a copy of the Heimskringla in his hands, a glass of sherry in the other. (wait, can you dress him in a silk smoking jacket and an ascot? :!)

You're not asking for much are you?

If you give me enough time. I've got to finish clearing the driveway of 10'' of snow.


OK - the Heimskringla is in the basket.
http://omacl.org/Heimskringla/

I'm working on the smoking jacket (but he doesn't smoke) and ascot.

 

[Moonbear]

I I told him that he should start doing his laundry in a coin-op laundromat in our town (county seat with lots of smaller towns on the periphery), and when women were coming in the door with loads of laundry, go open the door for them. Then, as he was loading his machines, he should ask harmless things like "how much detergent do you put in these big commercial washers?" etc. If a woman was slightly interested in him, she would help him get squared away, and if she was more interested, she might strike up a conversation. A laundromat on a Saturday afternoon is pretty neutral territory, doing laundry takes time, and talking to somebody who might be interesting can be a whole lot better than thumbing through 2-year-old copies of People magazine. It didn't take him long to meet some good potential dates/mates.

That really can work for a guy, not such a good option for women to meet men though. The reason is that there are SO MANY MORE women than men in the laundromats! So, a guy who actually heads there to do his laundry might have quite a lot of women to talk to (though many will have husbands and children...though the children are usually tagging along, so pretty easy to spot them). Back when I used laundromats, there was a consistent pattern that any guy who looked like he might be an eligible young professional (as opposed to being a too young for Moonbear college student) would just walk in, head straight to the back office, drop off his laundry at the counter with the person who did laundry by the pound, or pick up the finished laundry, and then head right back out the door...not a moment spent looking around the room, or stopping long enough to even say hello and make an introduction. Dangit! If they just stayed to DO their laundry, I would have struck up a conversation with them and found out if they were eligible, but rushing in and out like they did, there was no chance (I assumed if they could pay extra for someone else to do their laundry for them, they were either employed in a good enough job to afford extras, or they were just totally hopeless about doing their own laundry...the former would have been nice, the latter I could do without).

 

[Moonbear]

Both rare and yet well done.

Ooh, now that's what I like! Though, are you the right vintage?

 

[JasonRox]

Yes, I have. I met a great guy and he was so shy that he had trouble looking at me, getting close to me, one night I finally grabbed him at the curb and kissed him to make it clear I was interested. It took his best friend 3 weeks to get him to call me and ask me out after that. And this was a very well known, powerful attorney here, he was in charge of a few of the most popular charitable dances and social functions in town due to his social status. I couldn't pry words out of his mouth.

How can you like someone that barely speaks? How do you get to know them? How do you make the connections?

Honestly I don't get it. I can meet a very pretty girl but turn her down in 5 minutes because she hasn't made me smile yet (using words or doing something playful which is something shy people can't do). Although all my guy friends are still into it, I'm not. If I don't get value in a positive sense and see quality, then I'm out.

There is no way a shy girl would cut it because they don't have the social ability to do it. I'd have to literally get to know them for a long time for them to get comfortable around me enough for me to get to know them. Hence, why I would never go on a date with a shy girl if I just met her.

Honestly, all I see are excuses after excuses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

 

[Math Jeans]

Are we there yet?

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8540/dilbertwhair2jl6.jpg​

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Elvis lives!

 

[turbo]

So, a guy who actually heads there to do his laundry might have quite a lot of women to talk to (though many will have husbands and children...though the children are usually tagging along, so pretty easy to spot them). Back when I used laundromats, there was a consistent pattern that any guy who looked like he might be an eligible young professional (as opposed to being a too young for Moonbear college student) would just walk in, head straight to the back office, drop off his laundry at the counter with the person who did laundry by the pound, or pick up the finished laundry, and then head right back out the door...not a moment spent looking around the room, or stopping long enough to even say hello and make an introduction. Dangit!

Why would you want to say "hi" to such an uppity snit in the first place? Remember that construction workers, contract workers, and technical sales/service people can easily be stuck in your town over the weekend. They will not be hooked into the $/# bulk service and will be mostly unfamiliar with the washing machines and with the dryers. Ladies need not be shut out by the laundromat ploy. There are a lot of guys who are " on the bounce" that are suddenly using coin-op laundries too, so choose well, ladies. His ex may have tossed him for a good reason, but he may well be out there clean and free.

 

[Moonbear]

Why would you want to say "hi" to such an uppity snit in the first place?

Why do you assume they were uppity? They may have simply been very busy and in a hurry dropping off clothes before running off to a meeting.

Remember that construction workers, contract workers, and technical sales/service people can easily be stuck in your town over the weekend. They will not be hooked into the $/# bulk service and will be mostly unfamiliar with the washing machines and with the dryers. Ladies need not be shut out by the laundromat ploy. There are a lot of guys who are " on the bounce" that are suddenly using coin-op laundries too, so choose well, ladies. His ex may have tossed him for a good reason.

It's a nice thought, but there weren't any men at all coming into the laundromat to actually do laundry. I don't know why...it was even next to a pizza parlor, so you could grab a pizza and watch whatever game they had on while waiting for your laundry (and yes, I would sometimes do that too...sometimes had nice conversations with folks in the pizza parlor, though none were ever eligible or sufficiently interesting).

It could just be that most single, eligible people were living in the nicer apartment complexes that had their own laundry rooms, so they didn't need to head to the laundromat. The married couples with kids living in small houses without a washer and dryer may have been the only ones using the laundromats. Or, maybe the guys went to the other laundromats in seedier locations because they don't care while us single women chose the one that was in a safer neighborhood with an attendant present at all times.

I wouldn't have minded meeting a guy in a laundromat, because at least I'd know he knew how to do his own laundry and wasn't bringing it all home to mom still.

 

[turbo]

I wouldn't have minded meeting a guy in a laundromat, because at least I'd know he knew how to do his own laundry and wasn't bringing it all home to mom still.

 

[Evo]

You're not asking for much are you?

If you give me enough time. I've got to finish clearing the driveway of 10'' of snow.


OK - the Heimskringla is in the basket.
http://omacl.org/Heimskringla/

I'm working on the smoking jacket (but he doesn't smoke) and ascot.

Oh, no smoking, just the jacket.

Wait, he has a beard now.

 

[turbo]

Oh, no smoking, just the jacket.

Wait, he has a beard now.

At least you got Dilbert, and not Wally!

 

[Astronuc]

Oh, no smoking, just the jacket.

Wait, he has a beard now.

Slight variation on the theme. You prefer clean shaven? If so, I'll arrange an appointment with the barber - for him - not me.

BTW - you did mention 'silk smoking jacket'. I not up on all the terminology for fancy duds, since I avoid such attire as much as possible.

 

[jim mcnamara]

At least you got Dilbert, and not Wally!

She wants Mr Spittle the boss, spikey hair and all. After all money is where is at

I really don't know the boss's's's' (grammar and spelling abort) real name in the comic strip, we just call him Mr Spittle because he reminds us of the Principal at Calvins' elementary school.

 

[Evo]

Slight variation on the theme. You prefer clean shaven? If so, I'll arrange an appointment with the barber - for him - not me.

BTW - you did mention 'silk smoking jacket'. I not up on all the terminology for fancy duds, since I avoid such attire as much as possible.

No beard or mustache.

 

[jostpuur]

Why beautiful people are more intelligent

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/methodologyInstitute/pdf/SKanazawa/I2004.pdf

 

[Kurdt]

That explains the PF sisters then.

 

[rewebster]

From the paper:

"While theory and research in evolutionary psychology usually confirm, and elucidate the mechanisms
behind, most stereotypes, common perceptions and aphorisms, such as ‘‘Men like young and attractive
women, and women like rich and powerful men’’ (Buss, 1994), they have disconfirmed two aphorisms
about beauty: ‘‘Beauty is in the eye of the beholder’’ and ‘‘Beauty is skin deep.’’

----------

"In his replication of Elder (1969) and Taylor and Glenn (1976), Udry (1977) demonstrates that,
among both blacks and whites, upwardly mobile women are more physically attractive than others.
Women’s physical attractiveness has a significant effect on both their husband’s occupational status, and their upward mobility (the difference between their father’s and husband’s occupational statuses)."

--------------

"Finally, Hamermesh and Biddle’s (1994) analysis of the
1977 Quality of Employment survey finds that, relative to average-looking women, below-average looking
women are married to men with significantly less education, concurring with Udry and
Eckland’s findings."

(maybe that's why I'm not filthy rich--I've been dating average looking to just above average looking women!)

--------------

" However, there is also
empirical evidence to support the claim that beautiful people are more intelligent."

----------

"It goes without saying that our contention that beautiful people are more intelligent is purely scientific
(logical and empirical); it is not a prescription for how to treat or judge others."

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jostpuur,
An eye-opening paper---thanks

 

[jostpuur]

In fact I haven't read it myself. I read the abstract probably year ago or something like that, and this thread just reminded me of it, so I decided to post a link.

 

[Chronos]

Tough crowd, Evo. Smarts and beauty do not float my boat, sacks of cash attract my vote . . . a little known Irish proverb.

 

[moose]

I went for the looks over brains. That's because I tend to get along better with girls that are stupid. Why? I don't know.

 

[pace]

I'd like to put the question more like you meet it in everyday:

Would you like your mate to be quite intelligent but rather homely?
Or, quite beautiful but rather dumb?

I would choose the upperone. Most of all of course I would like her to be nice.

 

[Huckleberry]

I would choose the upperone. Most of all of course I would like her to be nice.

Nice is good, but nasty is nice too.

 

[rewebster]

I like the 'stranded on a desert island' idea---on a 'lower' level of that idea, that's what a good relationship is----a team/partnership in life----so, I'm voting for smart. And, from experience, dumb and beautiful gets kind of exasperating after a short time.

 

[animalcroc]

I choose beautiful but dumb as I can care less about intelligence. That would only be a factor in choosing a research partner. Besides, I find it somewhat romantic to have a dumb mate as I would be guiding her.

 

[Shackleford]

I choose beautiful but dumb as I can care less about intelligence. That would only be a factor in choosing a research partner. Besides, I find it somewhat romantic to have a dumb mate as I would be guiding her.

I feel a certain affinity for his sentiments. "Dumb" is a very ambiguous adjective, though.

 

[W3pcq]

At first site I would go for the attractive one because I wouldn't know she was dumb and wouldn't know if the ugly one was intelligent. As a choice between the two given I knew these traits about them and nothing about their kindness and compassion or whatever or how easy they are to get along with, I would choose the intelligent one as a wife and mother.

 

[rewebster]

At first site I would go for the attractive one because I wouldn't know she was dumb and wouldn't know if the ugly one was intelligent. As a choice between the two given I knew these traits about them and nothing about their kindness and compassion or whatever or how easy they are to get along with, I would choose the intelligent one as a wife and mother.

I think according to the compliments that Dr. Phil gives about the people he interviews with 'problems'---is that anyone who doesn't use "ain't" in the same sentence twice, he considers 'intelligent' and they're always attractive.

When I was dogging at the bars way back when, those two words always brought a smile as compliments---especially if used in the same sentence to the prospective lovely I was talking to.

 

[Shackleford]

Dr. Phil blows.

 

[rewebster]

Dr. Phil blows.

WHAT?!----don't you think he helped Britney?

 

[Evo]

When is storming into a mentally unstable person's hospital room unannounced with a camera crew considered not helpful?

 

[Werg22]

Why do we have to choose between smarts and looks? Can't we have both? Just take a look at myself.

On another note, I would reject both offers.

 

[Zenparticle]

I think smarts are quite attractive- Remember, the pretty dumb ones like to talk too and guess who they will want to discuss things with? How much time in one day you spend with your significant other being intimate as compared to the rest of the day? Pointless bla bla bla talks about curling irons or the gym.

 

[quantumdude]

Be honest, if you had only two choices, your mate could either be very intelligent, but homely, or beautiful and dumb, which would you choose?

That's easy: The one who's better in bed.

 

[Evo]

That's easy: The one who's better in bed.

Finally an honest answer from a man!

 

[Shackleford]

How about I just pick her:

 

[Evo]

The current Miss America was on "Are you smarter than a 5th grader?" last night. She's not dumb, but when they asked which planetary body in our solar system contains the most mass, her answer was "the Universe".

 

[EnumaElish]

Isn't ugliness only skin deep? Who'd want that?

 

[Huckleberry]

That's easy: The one who's better in bed.

Finally an honest answer from a man!

Nah, that can be learned from practice. LOTS and LOTS of practice.

I just want someone that I wouldn't mind waking up next to, and that doesn't mind tolerating me on a regular basis. I'd rather build my life around those I love than find people to love that suit the way I want to build my life. Neither intelligence nor beauty are very high on the list of things that I view as important for a long term relationship. I don't see relationships as a means to further ambitions. If love isn't the most important thing to both of us then I wouldn't bother to stick around. The love is all I care about in any relationship, and that's more important than any attribute.

 

[rewebster]

so the idea maybe is also---how would you attract a mate, or how did you attract your mate?--how do you think you attracted your mate?

your looks and body language?

the things you talk about?

or what percentage of each?

 

[Huckleberry]

I'm a sucker for a pretty face. I'm brainwashed by the stereotypical representation of physical beauty. So looks definitely do get my attention before anything else. Sharing physical attributes is nice, but loses it's commodity quickly if no basis for a more serious relationship forms.

Body language is pretty important to me, more so than the topic of conversation. I gather more from body language than I do from speech. If she wants to have a half-hour conversation about a double-printed M&M then I'd be fascinated. Or we might not talk at all while going for a 5 mile hike up some mountainside, and I'd still be fascinated. I'm easy. Any woman that genuinely enjoys my company I find very appealing.

I have a bad habit of being abrasive one moment and sympathetic the next. It usually revolves around some moral principle, which are touchy subjects. So probably the most important qualities that I look for is understanding. Oddly, I don't require strong moral values, just someone that will put up with me ranting about it occassionally. She could even laugh at me if she wanted. I would find that refreshing. No obligations, small expectations; a natural rhythm that isn't too complicated or labor intensive would be ideal. Ideal for me is something like a roomate with benefits.

I'm not currently looking for a relationship. I think it would be a bad idea for me or anyone I might get involved with at this point in time. If she were as damaged as I am then I might consider it. We could both be messed up together and have a bunch of messed up kids. That would be fun!

 

[binzing]

Who posted this thread/poll? Don't you know it's like torture to a guy?
Shackleford-Very very nice! Give me a hot brunette anyday over the stereotypical blonde!
Anyways, I really can't answer that. I find a combination of the two qualities!

 

[Shackleford]

Who posted this thread/poll? Don't you know it's like torture to a guy?
Shackleford-Very very nice! Give me a hot brunette anyday over the stereotypical blonde!
Anyways, I really can't answer that. I find a combination of the two qualities!

Yeah, man, I'm definitely a sucker for the brunettes. That's Megan Fox, by the way, the Transformers chick.

 

[binzing]

High five!(borat voice,...I'm sorry but I love how Cohen says that)

BTW...her last name definitely fits!

 

[quantumdude]

Isn't ugliness only skin deep? Who'd want that?

No, it's beauty that's only skin deep.

Ugly goes all the way down to the bone.

 

[binzing]

Also, another factor for me is whethere the beauty is artifical or natural. If its fake, I'd rather take the ugly/smart combo.

 

[Astronuc]

Oh, OH. We're talking now baybee. Put a copy of the Heimskringla in his hands, a glass of sherry in the other. (wait, can you dress him in a silk smoking jacket and an ascot? :!)

OK - Clean shaven, smoking jacket (without the smoking) and ascot.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7950/dilbertwhairjacketrt1.jpg​

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with a basket of goodies and the Heimskringla!

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1289/dilbertwhairnobeardgooddn5.jpg​

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Now - to set the mood for Heimskringla

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/685/dilbertwhairjackethornsba4.jpg​

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