SMART reporting and Hard Disk buzzing sound

  • #26
rbelli1
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lose data when it fails.

If you lose any significant amount of data when a drive fails you are doing it wrong.

Back everything up. Then you could heave all of your primary drives into a volcano and you lose no data.

Been there enough times when storage was expensive. Now storage is practically free.

BoB
 
  • #27
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Of course it's backed up. That doesn't mean I am happy when disks fail, especially unexpectedly.

I have fire insurance for my house. Doesn't mean I'd be OK with it catching fire.
 
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  • #28
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Follow-up.

Had a 4TB drive in the array fail in late July. Hard. If it was plugged in, the machine wouldn't power on - most likely a short somewhere. RMA'ed it to Toshiba with the receipt. Today I got a refund - of about $40 more than the drive cost. That's service!
 
  • #29
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Another update.

The raw read error rate is not the raw read error rate. :doh: It's actually logarithmic. A value of 73 means that you get an error every 20,000,000 reads. (10^7.3). Failing at 006 means every fourth read fails, and I would not use the word "failing" to describe that. More like "failed".

I just replaced a 320 GB Seagate DB35.3 that was in 24/7 use for 12 years. The only problem was that SMART tests took a (very) long time to finish, but after 12 years I figured I got my money's worth. The replacement isn't exactly new - it is a Seagate 500 GB that Amazon listed as New, but it wasn't new old stock or even new: it had 100 hours on it. And a filesystem. Amazon refunded my money and told me not to bother shipping it back. Can't complain about the service, but I suspect the business model is to sell lightly used drives as new, and do a refund only if someone notices and complains.
 
  • #30
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Today I got a refund - of about $40 more than the drive cost. That's service!

I got another refund, this time for exactly what the drive cost. No tax, no shipping back to Toshiba. They're off my list. They seem to have a high failure rate in my application (oddly, the N300 NAS drives seem to be worse than the non-NAS drives) and I am much more willing to play RMA roulette when they cover the full cost. No more "that's service!".
 
  • #31
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Thanks. Looks like an internal. They seem to be far less reliable than external ones (my experiences).
An external USB HDD these days usually contains a SATA internal HDD physically. I have a Seagate 4TB drive that used to be in an enclosure. The exact same drive was available at a higher price without the enclosure. Perhaps the USB SATA interface in the enclosure is less demanding than a direct internal SATA connection might be, but that is entirely an interface concern, and has nothing to do with the drive itself.
 
  • #32
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Another update.

The raw read error rate is not the raw read error rate. :doh: It's actually logarithmic. A value of 73 means that you get an error every 20,000,000 reads. (10^7.3). Failing at 006 means every fourth read fails, and I would not use the word "failing" to describe that. More like "failed".

I just replaced a 320 GB Seagate DB35.3 that was in 24/7 use for 12 years. The only problem was that SMART tests took a (very) long time to finish, but after 12 years I figured I got my money's worth. The replacement isn't exactly new - it is a Seagate 500 GB that Amazon listed as New, but it wasn't new old stock or even new: it had 100 hours on it. And a filesystem. Amazon refunded my money and told me not to bother shipping it back. Can't complain about the service, but I suspect the business model is to sell lightly used drives as new, and do a refund only if someone notices and complains.
Amazon was probably merely passing forward the supplier's assessment of the supplier's product. if you want to critique Amazon regarding the matter, you might consider that the supplier was apparently not adequately pre-vetted, and that refunds aren't always an adequate remedy. I think that Amazon could do better.
 
  • #33
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Amazon was probably merely passing forward the supplier's assessment of the supplier's product.

I agree with that, except for the word "merely". That's Amazon's job.
 
  • #34
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The exact same drive was available at a higher price without the enclosure.

The4re is a whole counter-culture of people who "shuck" drives- buy a USB drive and remove the drive. When I replaced my years-old external for a larger one, I disassembled the unit to take a look inside. The USB-to-SATA connection is tiny, and if it didn't have an LED on it you could be excused for missing it.

The drive vendors have caught on to this, and their moral equivalent of the airlines' "Saturday night stay" is to disable drives if the 3.3V line is present. This is fairly simple to work around, although I have to question whether using a $30 roll of Kapton tape is really the best solution to save $15 on a drive.
 
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  • #35
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The4re is a whole counter-culture of people who "shuck" drives- buy a USB drive and remove the drive. When I replaced my years-old external for a larger one, I disassembled the unit to take a look inside. The USB-to-SATA connection is tiny, and if it didn't have an LED on it you could be excused for missing it.

The drive vendors have caught on to this, and their moral equivalent of the aorline's "Saturday night stay" is to disable drives if the 3.3V line is present. This is fairly simple to work around, although I have to question whether using a $30 roll of Kapton tape is really the best solution to save $15 on a drive.
On seeing this from you, I looked it up, and found that you can bypass the 3.3V rail by using a 4-pin Molex-to-SATA adapter to supply power to the HDD.
 
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  • #36
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Yes, although modern supplies tend to have few Molex connectors. A SATA-to-SATA extension without an orange wire (or with a cut orange wire) will do the same thing.
 
  • #37
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Yes, although modern supplies tend to have few Molex connectors. A SATA-to-SATA extension without an orange wire (or with a cut orange wire) will do the same thing.
The converter cables/adapters are not too expensive -- this one from Monoprice is $1.29 (USD):

1581280089033.png


I understand that the HDD might require the SATA end and the power supply might not like the MOLEX end, but one way or another, you can still use the HDD outside of the enclosure.
 
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  • #38
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I don't know the origin of this but here it is:

##\mathtt{\text{If you have a problem and it can't be fixed with duct tape,}}##
##\mathtt{\text{it's 'cause you're not usin' enough duct tape.}}##​
 
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  • #39
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One thing to keep in mind is that there are a lot of junk adapters out there that use wire that is too small. Most of them won't catch fire...

SATA is rated at 4.5 amps. Molex is rated at 11 amps. AWG23 would be the minimum gauge wire to power one SATA within spec. Most drives are < 10 W, so some manufacturers use AWG 26 ("probably" safe) or even AWG 28 (hey, there's a safety margin of 2, right?).
 
  • #40
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The twin of the RMA'ed drive back in July is throwing read errors. Grrrr......
 
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