Solution for system of diff equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conversion of a system of first-order differential equations into a second-order differential equation and the implications of such a transformation. Participants explore the validity of this approach and the relationships between the variables involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that a system of first-order differential equations can be rewritten as a second-order differential equation, suggesting that this transformation eliminates the need to find eigenvalues and eigenvectors.
  • Another participant questions the assumption that the relationship \(y(t) = u'(t) = x'(t)\) holds, expressing skepticism about the independence of the variables in the original equations.
  • A participant agrees with the initial claim, providing a mathematical derivation that supports the conversion of a system of first-order equations into a single nth-order equation.
  • Another participant reiterates the derivation, questioning whether this method is simpler than computing eigenvalues and eigenvectors.
  • A later reply points out that while the equations can be converted into second-order equations, it does not imply that \(y = x'\). This participant emphasizes the possibility of choosing independent boundary conditions for each equation, indicating a flaw in the original assumption.
  • This participant also notes that the reverse process—converting a single nth-order differential equation into a system of first-order equations—is often more straightforward for solving such equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the transformation and the relationships between the variables. There is no consensus on whether the proposed method is correct or simpler than traditional approaches.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in the assumptions made regarding the relationships between the variables and the independence of boundary conditions, which remain unresolved.

Jhenrique
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Given system like ##\begin{bmatrix}
x'(t)\\
y'(t)\\
\end{bmatrix}

=

\begin{bmatrix}
a & b \\
c & d \\
\end{bmatrix}

\begin{bmatrix}
x(t)\\
y(t)\\
\end{bmatrix}## can be rewritten as ##(-1)u''(t) + (bd)u'(t) + (ad+c)u(t) = 0## with ##\begin{bmatrix}
x(t)\\
y(t)\\
\end{bmatrix}

=

\begin{bmatrix}
u(t)\\
u'(t)\\
\end{bmatrix}##

In other words, if a diff equation of 2nd order can be disassembled in a system of 1nd order, thus a system of 1nd order can be assembled in a diff equation of 2nd order, correct? This way, I don't need to find the eigenvalues and eigenvectors...
 
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How do you guarantee that ##y(t)=u'(t)=x'(t)## will always work? I don't see why this would be so... they look independent to me in the first equation...
 
Yes, that is true. Dropping the matrix notation, if x'= ax+ by and y'= cx+ dy. then x''= ax'+ by'= ax'+ b(cx+ dy)= ax'+ bcx+ bdy. From the first equation, by= x'- ax so that
x''= ax'+ bcx+ d(x'- ax)= (a+ d)x'+ (bc- ad)x. We can always convert a system of n first order differential equations to a single nth order differential equation.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Yes, that is true. Dropping the matrix notation, if x'= ax+ by and y'= cx+ dy. then x''= ax'+ by'= ax'+ b(cx+ dy)= ax'+ bcx+ bdy. From the first equation, by= x'- ax so that
x''= ax'+ bcx+ d(x'- ax)= (a+ d)x'+ (bc- ad)x. We can always convert a system of n first order differential equations to a single nth order differential equation.

And this method isn't more simple than compute the eigenvalues and eigenvectors of a matrix?
 
Matterwave has seen the problem with the OP's idea.

You can convert the two equations into second order equations
x''= (a+d)x'+ (bc-ad)x
y''= (a+d)y'+ (bc-ad)y

But it doesn't follow that y = x'. You can choose two independent boundary conditions for each equation.

If it did follow that y = x', it would also follow that x = y', and that clearly means "something is wrong here".

In fact the OP's idea is used in reverse: to solve a single differential equation of order n, it is often easiest to convert it into a system of n first-order equations.
 

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