Solution of the Damped Wave Equation under Certain Boundary Conditions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the solution of the damped wave equation under specific boundary conditions. Participants explore the mathematical formulation, coefficients, and implications of the solution, including boundary conditions and Fourier series representations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants present the damped wave equation and propose a general solution involving sine and exponential functions.
  • There is a discussion on deriving coefficients \(C_n\) and \(A_1\) from boundary conditions, with some participants asserting that \(C_n = 0\) leads to \(A_1 = 0\) as well.
  • Others question the validity of the steps taken to derive \(C_n\) and \(A_1\), suggesting that the Fourier series of the sine function does not converge to the function itself.
  • Some participants express confusion regarding the notation used in the equations, particularly around the placement of parentheses in trigonometric functions.
  • A few participants challenge the correctness of the proposed solution, suggesting that it does not account for overdamped solutions and that different approaches may be necessary.
  • There are requests for clarification on specific mathematical steps and derivations related to the coefficients.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the proposed solution and the derivation of coefficients. Some agree on the triviality of certain solutions, while others argue that there may be additional solutions or corrections needed. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the validity of the overall solution and the implications of overdamping.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the Fourier series of the sine function may not converge to the function itself, and there is uncertainty about the implications of using boundary conditions multiple times. The discussion also highlights potential limitations in the assumptions made regarding overdamped solutions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and professionals interested in mathematical physics, particularly those studying wave equations, boundary value problems, and Fourier analysis.

Dustinsfl
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$$
u_{tt} + 3u_t = u_{xx}\Rightarrow \varphi\psi'' + 3\varphi\psi' = \varphi''\psi.
$$
$$
u(0,t) = u(\pi,t) = 0
$$
$$
u(x,0) = 0\quad\text{and}\quad u_t(x,0) = 10
$$
\[\varphi(x) = A\cos kx + B\sin kx\\\]
\begin{alignat*}{3}
\psi(t) & = & C\exp\left(-\frac{3t}{2}\right)\exp\left[t\frac{\sqrt{9 - 4n^2}}{2}\right] + D\exp\left(-\frac{3t}{2}\right)\exp\left[-t\frac{\sqrt{9 - 4n^2}}{2}\right]
\end{alignat*}
The general sol would be
\begin{eqnarray}
u(x,t)&=&\exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]\sin x\left[A_1\cosh\frac{t\sqrt{5}}{2} + B_1\sinh\frac{t\sqrt{5}}{2}\right]\\

&+&\exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}\sin nx\left[C_n\cos t\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2} + D_n\sin t\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}\right]

\end{eqnarray}
Correct?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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dwsmith said:
$$
u_{tt} + 3u_t = u_{xx}\Rightarrow \varphi\psi'' + 3\varphi\psi' = \varphi''\psi.
$$
$$
u(0,t) = u(\pi,t) = 0
$$
$$
u(x,0) = 0\quad\text{and}\quad u_t(x,0) = 10
$$
\[\varphi(x) = A\cos kx + B\sin kx\\\]
\begin{alignat*}{3}
\psi(t) & = & C\exp\left(-\frac{3t}{2}\right)\exp\left[t\frac{\sqrt{9 - 4n^2}}{2}\right] + D\exp\left(-\frac{3t}{2}\right)\exp\left[-t\frac{\sqrt{9 - 4n^2}}{2}\right]
\end{alignat*}
The general sol would be
\begin{eqnarray}
u(x,t)&=&\exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]\sin x\left[A_1\cosh\frac{t\sqrt{5}}{2} + B_1\sinh\frac{t\sqrt{5}}{2}\right]\\

&+&\exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}\sin nx\left[C_n\cos t\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2} + D_n\sin t\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}\right]

\end{eqnarray}
Correct?

Assuming that the gen soln is correct. Here is what I did to solve for the coefficients. Is this correct?
I haven't been able to solve for $B_1$ though. Hopefully, someone will have some insight.
Using the first boundary condition, we have
\begin{alignat*}{5}
u(x,0) & = & A_1\sin x + \sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}C_n\sin nx & = & 0\\
& \Rightarrow & \sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}C_n\sin nx & = & -A_1\sin x\\
& \Rightarrow & C_n & = & -\frac{2A_1}{\pi}\int_0^{\pi}\sin x\sin nxdx\\
& & & = & \frac{2A_1\sin n\pi}{\pi(n^2 - 1)}\\
& & & = & 0
\end{alignat*}
That is, $C_n = 0$.
\begin{alignat*}{3}
u(x,t) & = & \exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]\sin x\left[A_1\cosh\frac{t\sqrt{5}}{2} + B_1\sinh\frac{t\sqrt{5}}{2}\right] + \exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}D_n\sin nx\sin t\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}
\end{alignat*}
Again, using the first boundary condition, we have (Is it okay to use the BC twice?)
\begin{alignat*}{3}
u(x,0) & = & A_1\sin x & = & 0.
\end{alignat*}
Therefore, $A_1 = 0$ too.
\begin{alignat*}{3}
u(x,t) & = & \exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]B_1\sin x\sinh\frac{t\sqrt{5}}{2} + \exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}D_n\sin nx\sin t\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}
\end{alignat*}
Using the second boundary condition, we have
\begin{alignat*}{5}
u_t(x,0) & = & \frac{\sqrt{5}}{2}B_1\sin x + \sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}D_n\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}\sin nx & = & 10\\
& \Rightarrow & \sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}D_n\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}\sin nx & = & 10 - \frac{\sqrt{5}}{2}B_1\sin x\\
& \Rightarrow & D_n & = & \frac{4}{\pi\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}\int_0^{\pi}\left(10 - \frac{\sqrt{5}}{2}B_1\sin x\right)\sin nxdx\\
& & & = & -\frac{40(\cos n\pi - 1)}{n\pi\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}\\
& & & = & -\frac{40((-1)^n - 1)}{n\pi\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}\\
& & & = & \begin{cases}
0, & \text{if n is even}\\
\frac{80}{n\pi\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}, & \text{if n is odd}
\end{cases}
\end{alignat*}
\begin{alignat*}{3}
u(x,t) & = & \exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]B_1\sin x\sinh\frac{t\sqrt{5}}{2}\\
& + & \frac{80\exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]}{\pi}\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}\frac{1}{(2n - 1)\sqrt{\left(n^2 -\frac{1}{2}\right)^2 - \frac{9}{16}}}\sin nx\sin t\frac{\sqrt{\left(n^2 -\frac{1}{2}\right)^2 - \frac{9}{16}}}{2}
\end{alignat*}
 
Hi dwsmith, :)

Can you please explain how you got,

\[\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}C_n\sin nx = -A_1\sin x\]

\[\Rightarrow C_n = -\frac{2A_1}{\pi}\int_0^{\pi}\sin x\sin nxdx\]
 
Sudharaka said:
Hi dwsmith, :)

Can you please explain how you got,

\[\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}C_n\sin nx = -A_1\sin x\]

\[\Rightarrow C_n = -\frac{2A_1}{\pi}\int_0^{\pi}\sin x\sin nxdx\]

Fourier coefficient
 
dwsmith said:
Fourier coefficient

Note that when you substitute \(t=0\) in,

\begin{eqnarray} u(x,t)&=&\exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]\sin x\left[A_1\cosh\frac{t\sqrt{5}}{2} + B_1\sinh\frac{t\sqrt{5}}{2}\right]\\ &+&\exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}\sin nx\left[C_n\cos t\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2} + D_n\sin t\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}\right] \end{eqnarray}

you get,

\[\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}C_n\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}\sin nx = -A_1\sin x\]
 
Sudharaka said:
Note that when you substitute \(t=0\) in,

\begin{eqnarray} u(x,t)&=&\exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]\sin x\left[A_1\cosh\frac{t\sqrt{5}}{2} + B_1\sinh\frac{t\sqrt{5}}{2}\right]\\ &+&\exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}\sin nx\left[C_n\cos t\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2} + D_n\sin t\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}\right] \end{eqnarray}

you get,

\[\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}C_n\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}\sin nx = -A_1\sin x\]

$0\cdot\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2} =0$ and the cosine of 0 is 1
 
dwsmith said:
$0\cdot\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2} =0$ and the cosine of 0 is 1

Ah, I was confused by the lack of parenthesis. I thought that \(\cos t\) was multiplied by \(\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}\).

Anyway it is incorrect that,

\[\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}C_n\sin nx = -A_1\sin x\]

\[\Rightarrow C_n = -\frac{2A_1}{\pi}\int_0^{\pi}\sin x\sin nxdx\]

Note that the Fourier series of the sine function is zero and hence does not converge to the function itself.
 
Sudharaka said:
Ah, I was confused by the lack of parenthesis. I thought that \(\cos t\) was multiplied by \(\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}\).

Anyway it is incorrect that,

\[\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}C_n\sin nx = -A_1\sin x\]

\[\Rightarrow C_n = -\frac{2A_1}{\pi}\int_0^{\pi}\sin x\sin nxdx\]

Note that the Fourier series of the sine function is zero and hence does not converge to the function itself.

I have that $C_n = 0$. Can I use the same boundary condition to obtain $A_1$? How can I obtain $B_1$?
 
Sudharaka said:
Ah, I was confused by the lack of parenthesis. I thought that \(\cos t\) was multiplied by \(\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}\).

This is precisely why I always insist that students put parentheses around function arguments. Don't write so that you can be understood. Write so you can't be misunderstood.

$$ \cos \left(t \cdot \frac{ \sqrt{4n^{2}-9}}{2} \right)$$
is better than
$$ \cos t \cdot \frac{ \sqrt{4n^{2}-9}}{2}\;\text{or}\;\cos t \frac{ \sqrt{4n^{2}-9}}{2},$$
because the latter is ambiguous.

It might be a tad more typing up front, but it saves typing later.
 
  • #10
dwsmith said:
I have that $C_n = 0$. Can I use the same boundary condition to obtain $A_1$? How can I obtain $B_1$?

\(C_n =A_{1}= 0\) is a trivial solution of the equation, \(\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}C_n\sin nx = -A_1\sin x\). You don't need to use a boundary condition for the second time to say that. However it may not be the only solution.
 
  • #11
Sudharaka said:
\(C_n =A_{1}= 0\) is a trivial solution of the equation, \(\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}C_n\sin nx = -A_1\sin x\). You don't need to use a boundary condition for the second time to say that. However it may not be the only solution.

How do I find $B_1$?
 
  • #12
I think the solution you have obtained for the damped wave equation is incorrect. Refer, >>this<<.
 
  • #13
Sudharaka said:
I think the solution you have obtained for the damped wave equation is incorrect. Refer, >>this<<.

There equation doesn't account for overdamped solutions. If they let $c = 5$, the first few n terms would be over damped and they would need a summation cosh and sinh + summation of cos and sine.

In my case, I have overdamping at n = 1. So I don't need a summation. I just have one term.
 
  • #14
Sudharaka said:
I think the solution you have obtained for the damped wave equation is incorrect. Refer, >>this<<.

This linked lead me to another pdf from that school that helped with another problem though :)
 
  • #15
Sudharaka said:
\(C_n =A_{1}= 0\) is a trivial solution of the equation, \(\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}C_n\sin nx = -A_1\sin x\). You don't need to use a boundary condition for the second time to say that. However it may not be the only solution.

If it isn't the only solution, how can we find another solution?
 
  • #16
I have a form for $B$ but I not to sure about it
$$
B=\frac{4 \sqrt{5} \text{Csc}[x] \left(\pi -2 i \text{ArcTanh}\left[e^{-i x}\right]+2 i \text{ArcTanh}\left[e^{i x}\right]+4 \text{Sin}[x]\right)}{\pi }
$$
 
  • #17
dwsmith said:
I have a form for $B$ but I not to sure about it
$$
B=\frac{4 \sqrt{5} \text{Csc}[x] \left(\pi -2 i \text{ArcTanh}\left[e^{-i x}\right]+2 i \text{ArcTanh}\left[e^{i x}\right]+4 \text{Sin}[x]\right)}{\pi }
$$
When I plot my soln, I don't see any damping. Is there a mistake some where?
Using the second boundary condition, we have
\begin{alignat*}{5}
u_t(x,0) & = & \frac{\sqrt{5}}{2}B_1\sin x + \sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}D_n\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}\sin nx & = & 10\\
& \Rightarrow & \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty}d_n\frac{\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}{2}\sin nx & = & 10\\
& \Rightarrow & d_n & = & \frac{40}{\pi\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}\int_0^{\pi}\sin nx dx\\
& & & = & -\frac{40(\cos n\pi - 1)}{n\pi\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}\\
& & & = & \begin{cases}
0, & \text{if n is even}\\
\frac{80}{n\pi\sqrt{4n^2 - 9}}, & \text{if n is odd}
\end{cases}
\end{alignat*}
If we peel off the $n = 1$ term now, we will have the first term which is $\frac{40}{\pi}\sin x$.
So $B_1 = \frac{16\sqrt{5}}{\pi}$
\begin{alignat*}{3}
u(x,t) & = & \exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]\frac{16\sqrt{5}}{\pi}\sin x\sinh\frac{t\sqrt{5}}{2} + \frac{80\exp\left[-\frac{3t}{2}\right]}{\pi}\sum_{n = 2}^{\infty}\frac{\sin nx\sin\left(t\frac{\sqrt{4(2n - 1)^2 - 9}}{2}\right)}{(2n - 1)\sqrt{4(2n - 1)^2 - 9}}
\end{alignat*}
 

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