Solve nth Derivative of cos ax with Respect to a

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nth derivative of the cosine function, specifically the expression for the nth derivative of cos(ax) with respect to the variable a. Participants explore various methods of proving this derivative, including mathematical induction and direct calculation, while also clarifying notation and assumptions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant initially claims that the nth derivative of cos(ax) with respect to a is a^n cos(ax + na/2), but this is challenged by another participant who points out a missing factor of pi.
  • Another participant suggests that the correct expression involves cos(pi x) and proposes using mathematical induction to prove it.
  • Some participants discuss the equivalence of cos(x + n(pi)/2) to expressions involving sine and cosine, depending on whether n is even or odd.
  • There is a suggestion to prove the identity by showing the left-hand side equals the right-hand side, similar to proving identities, but this approach is met with skepticism regarding its feasibility.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the variable with respect to which the derivative is taken, with some participants assuming it is with respect to x rather than a.
  • A detailed derivation is provided by one participant, outlining steps involving trigonometric identities and limits to arrive at the desired result.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct formulation of the derivative and the appropriate method of proof. There is no consensus on the best approach, and some confusion remains regarding the variable of differentiation.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of correctly interpreting the derivative's variable and the implications of using mathematical induction versus direct calculation. There are also unresolved issues regarding the notation used for pi and the assumptions underlying the proposed proofs.

vin-math
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The nth derivative...

I don't know how to proof the nth derivative of cos ax with respect to a is a^ncos (ax+ na/2). Can anyone help me?
 
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Well, it isn't. Where's your pi?
 
ooops, i type wrongly. it should be "proof the nth derivative of cos (pi)x with respect to a is (pi)^ncos [(pi)x+ n(pi)/2)]"
actually i don't know hot to type the notation of pi here, so i replace the pi with a
 
vin-math said:
ooops, i type wrongly. it should be "proof the nth derivative of cos (pi)x with respect to a is (pi)^ncos [(pi)x+ n(pi)/2)]"
actually i don't know hot to type the notation of pi here, so i replace the pi with a

I think you could prove this by induction, show it's true for n=1, assume it's true for n=k then show that it being true for n=k implies it being true for n=k+1.
 
d_leet said:
I think you could prove this by induction, show it's true for n=1, assume it's true for n=k then show that it being true for n=k implies it being true for n=k+1.

But can i just calculate the final answer (the nth derivative), apart from using the mathematical induction?
 
You might want to keep in mind that
[tex]cos(x+ \frac{n\pi}{2})[/tex]
is equal to
[tex](-1)^{\frac{n}{2}}cos(x)[/tex]
if n is even,
[tex](-1)^{\frac{n-1}{2}}sin(x)[/tex]
if n is odd.
 
vin-math said:
But can i just calculate the final answer (the nth derivative), apart from using the mathematical induction?

What do you mean? The way you stated the problem was that you didn't know how to prove it, and it seems that the best way to prove this would be to use mathematical induction and HallsofIvy's suggestion.
 
HallsofIvy said:
You might want to keep in mind that
[tex]cos(x+ \frac{n\pi}{2})[/tex]
is equal to
[tex](-1)^{\frac{n}{2}}cos(x)[/tex]
if n is even,
[tex](-1)^{\frac{n-1}{2}}sin(x)[/tex]
if n is odd.


thx!
I think i now hv some idea in solve the Q.:smile:
 
d_leet said:
What do you mean? The way you stated the problem was that you didn't know how to prove it, and it seems that the best way to prove this would be to use mathematical induction and HallsofIvy's suggestion.

I mean that like proofing identities, we will proof the L.H.S equal to the R.H.S. I want to do the same thing in this Q.
 
  • #10
vin-math said:
I mean that like proofing identities, we will proof the L.H.S equal to the R.H.S. I want to do the same thing in this Q.

And how do you expect to do this? I don't really think that you can do something like that in this situation, and so I will again recommend that you try to prove this using mathematical induction, it really doesn't seem like it would be that hard or long of a proof given the suggestion that HallsofIvy gave you.
 
  • #11
vin-math said:
I don't know how to proof the nth derivative of cos ax with respect to a is a^ncos (ax+ na/2). Can anyone help me?
I pressume the result you intend is something like
(0)
[tex]( \frac{\d}{\d x} )^n \cos(a x+b)=a^n \cos(a x+b+n \frac{\pi}{2})[/tex]
use the following basic results
(1) An obvious trigonometry identity
[tex] \frac{\Delta}{\Delta x} \cos(a x+b)=a \cos(a x+b+a \frac{h}{2}+\frac{\pi}{2})\frac{\sin(h/2)}{h/2}[/tex]
(2) Continuity of cosine
[tex]\lim_{h->0}(\cos(x+h)-\cos(x))=0[/tex]
(3) sin(x)~x x small
[tex]\lim_{h->0}\frac{\sin(h)}{h}=1[/tex]
(4) apply (1) n times
[tex] (\frac{\Delta}{\Delta x})^n \cos(a x+b)=a \cos(a x+b+a n \frac{h}{2}+n \frac{\pi}{2})(\frac{\sin(h/2)}{h/2})^n[/tex]
(5) passage to the limit (h->0) of (4) using (2) and (3) give the desired result
[tex]( \frac{\d}{\d x} )^n \cos(a x+b)=a^n \cos(a x+b+n \frac{\pi}{2})[/tex]
 
Last edited:
  • #12
By the way, you keep saying "the derivative with respect to a". If that's what you really mean, then the answer you give is NOT correct. But everyone has been assuming that you meant "with respect to x" anyway.
 
  • #13
HallsofIvy said:
By the way, you keep saying "the derivative with respect to a". If that's what you really mean, then the answer you give is NOT correct. But everyone has been assuming that you meant "with respect to x" anyway.

Yes, u are right:redface:
 
  • #14
vin-math said:
I don't know how to proof the nth derivative of cos ax with respect to a is a^ncos (ax+ na/2). Can anyone help me?
I pressume the result you intend is something like
(0)
[tex]( \frac{d}{dx} )^n \cos(a x+b)=a^n \cos(a x+b+n \frac{\pi}{2})[/tex]
use the following basic results
(1) An obvious trigonometry identity
[tex] \frac{\Delta}{\Delta x} \cos(a x+b)=a \cos(a x+b+a \frac{h}{2}+\frac{\pi}{2})\frac{\sin(a h/2)}{a h/2}[/tex]
(2) Continuity of cosine
[tex]\lim_{h->0}(\cos(x+h)-\cos(x))=0[/tex]
(3) sin(x)~x x small
[tex]\lim_{h->0}\frac{\sin(h)}{h}=1[/tex]
(4) apply (1) n times
[tex] (\frac{\Delta}{\Delta x} )^n \cos(a x+b)=a^n \cos(a x+b+a n \frac{h}{2}+n \frac{\pi}{2})(\frac{\sin(a h/2)}{a h/2})^n[/tex]
(5) passage to the limit (h->0) of (4) using (2) and (3) give the desired result
[tex]( \frac{d}{dx} )^n \cos(a x+b)=a^n \cos(a x+b+n \frac{\pi}{2})[/tex]
 

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