Why isn't Un the derivative of Sn in sequence and derivative?

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    Derivative Sequence
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the nth term of a sequence, denoted as Un, and the sum of the sequence, represented as Sn. Participants explore whether Un can be considered the derivative of Sn, examining the nature of derivatives in the context of discrete versus continuous changes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why Un is not the derivative of Sn, suggesting a correlation between the two.
  • Another participant explains that the derivative represents a continuous measure of change, contrasting it with the discrete changes observed in the sequence.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the derivative is defined as the limit of the ratio of changes as the interval approaches zero, clarifying the distinction between discrete and continuous changes.
  • One participant presents a formula, U(n) = S(n+1) - S(n), and draws a parallel to the derivative expression, suggesting that it resembles the derivative when the increment is set to 1.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between Un and Sn, with some arguing for a correlation while others clarify the differences between discrete and continuous measures. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of this relationship.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of comparing discrete sequences to continuous functions, noting that the derivative's definition relies on limits that may not apply directly to the discrete context of sequences.

terryds
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I see that derivative of y with respect to x is just like the ratio of y over x.
But, Why Un (the formula to find nth term) is not the derivative of Sn (the sum of sequence formula) ??

For example,

1 2 5 10 -> y = x2+1
+1 +3 +5 -> y= 2x-1
+2 +2 -> y=2

I think that the second level is 2x (since it's the derivative of y = x2+1), but it's not...
Derivative of y with respect to x is just like how much y will gain with x gaining, right ?

Is there any way or formula to correlate the derivative of Sn with Un ??
 
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terryds said:
I see that derivative of y with respect to x is just like the ratio of y over x.
But, Why Un (the formula to find nth term) is not the derivative of Sn (the sum of sequence formula) ??

For example,

1 2 5 10 -> y = x2+1
+1 +3 +5 -> y= 2x-1
+2 +2 -> y=2

I think that the second level is 2x (since it's the derivative of y = x2+1), but it's not...
Derivative of y with respect to x is just like how much y will gain with x gaining, right ?

Is there any way or formula to correlate the derivative of Sn with Un ??

The derivative is a continuous measure of change. You are comparing it with discrete changes between ##x = 0, 1, 2 \ \dots##

The function ##y = x^2 + 1## is a smooth curve. You are effectively joining up the points ##(0, 1), (1, 2), (2, 5)## with straight lines. That is the difference.

If, instead, you took ##x = 2, 4, 6 \dots## or ##x = 10, 20, 30 \dots## you would find a bigger discrepancy between the derivative at a point and the slope of the straight line to the next point.

Or, if you took ##x = 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 \dots## you would find the slope of the straight lines to be closer to the derivative.

The smaller you take the difference between values of ##x##, the closer you will get to the derivative. The derivative is, in fact, the limit of the slope of these straight lines as the difference between your points get arbitrarily small.
 
terryds said:
I see that derivative of y with respect to x is just like the ratio of y over x.
No, it isn't. The derivative of y with respect to x is the ratio of change in y over change in x. IOW, ##\frac{dy}{dx} = \lim_{\Delta x \to 0} \frac {\Delta y}{\Delta x}##, one of several formulations for this derivative.
 
We have U(n) = S(n+1) - S(n)
which looks similar to the derivative
dy/dx = lim (h->0) of (y(x+h) - y(x)) /h
In fact it is the same expression when h=1
 
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