Solving a Belief Network Problem with Car Starting: A Bayesian Approach

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a Bayesian network problem related to car starting, specifically focusing on calculating the probability of fuel being empty given that the car did not start. Participants explore the application of Bayesian reasoning and the relationships between various probabilities defined in the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the problem and defines the relevant variables and probabilities related to car starting.
  • Another participant questions the initial approach to calculating P(F = N|S = N) and suggests an alternative formulation using joint probabilities.
  • A third participant confirms that the Bayesian approach is valid but notes that the relationship between S, F, and T complicates the calculation.
  • One participant expresses ongoing difficulty in solving for P(S = N|F = N) and seeks further assistance.
  • A later reply discusses the interpretation of notation and proposes a method to derive P(T = Y) and P(T = N) based on the given probabilities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to solve the problem, and multiple competing views on the application of Bayesian reasoning and probability calculations remain evident throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the correct interpretation of conditional probabilities and the relationships among the variables, indicating potential limitations in their understanding of the problem structure.

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I am having problem solving this exercise. The problem actually comes with a diagram but I do not know and I do not think i can draw it in the forum. The exercise is based on car starting(Heckerman 1995)

Since I can't draw the network diagram here but values of probability are given but first let me define all the variables

B - Battery
G - Gauge
F - Fuel
T - Turnover
S - Start
N - No
Y - Yes

P(B = N) = 0.02
p(F = N) = 0.05
P(G = N|B = Y, F = Y) = 0.04
P(G = N|B = Y, F = N) = 0.97
P(G = N|B = N, F = Y) = 0.10
P(G = N|B = N, F = N) = 0.99
P(T = N|B = Y) = 0.03
P(T = N|B = N) = 0.98
P(S = N|T = Y, F = Y) = 0.01
P(S = N|T = Y, F = N) = 0.92
P(S = N|T = N, F = Y) = 1.0
P(S = N|T = N, F = N) = 1.0

It was asked to calculate p(F = N|S = N)

Im thinking of Bayesian but I got stuck somewhere so I think it is the wrong approach since S depend on F and T NOT F alone.

Im thinking of the other approach and came up with an expression

P(F = N|S = N) = P(S = N|F = N)/P(F)
= P(S = N, B, G, T|F = N)/P(F)

But I am not sure how to compute and put the figures together.

Any input/help is appreciated. Thank you
 
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How do you get P(F = N|S = N) = P(S = N|F = N)/P(F) ?

P(F = N|S = N) = P(S = N & F = N)/P(S = N) and P(S = N|F = N) = P(S = N & F = N)/P(F = N) so P(S = N & F = N) = P(F = N|S = N)P(S = N) = P(S = N|F = N)P(F = N).
 
So the Bayesian approach was right. I taught I was wrong at the first place because using Bayesian ended up with the following

P(S = N|F = N) P(F = N)/ P(S = N)

but from the diagram I have and as you can see from the probabilities, S depend on both F and T and in the expression above we want to know the probability of S = N given that F = N (in other words the probability that the engine will not start given that the fuel tank was empty).
 
I am still having trouble solving P(S = N|F = N).

please help...
 
Below, I assume that the notation (A|B,C) means (A|B)|C = A|(B|C), and neither A|(B & C) nor (A|B) & C. (If anyone disagrees, please post your opinion.)

P(S = N|F = N) = P(S = N|T = Y, F = N) P(T = Y) + P(S = N|T = N, F = N) P(T = N) so you should first derive P(T = Y) and P(T = N).

You can derive P(T=N) from:
P(B = N) = 0.02
P(T = N|B = Y) = 0.03
P(T = N|B = N) = 0.98
using a formula similar to the one in the previous paragraph of this post.

Then, P(T=Y) = 1 - P(T=N).
 
Last edited:

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