Solving Difficult Differential Equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving two challenging differential equations, with participants seeking assistance and exploring potential methods for their solutions. The focus includes both theoretical approaches and practical applications, particularly in relation to the Lambert W function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a differential equation involving a product of variables and a square root, expressing difficulty in finding a solution and mentioning MATLAB's output related to the Lambert W function.
  • Another participant questions the complexity of the equations, suggesting they are merely textbook exercises and requests hints for solving them.
  • A third participant provides a detailed transformation of the second differential equation, demonstrating how to derive a form that leads to the Lambert W function, while noting the challenges in isolating the variable.
  • The same participant suggests that a similar substitution might simplify the first equation, although they do not attempt to solve it directly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of difficulty with the equations, with some feeling they are not as challenging as presented. There is no consensus on the best approach to solve the first equation, and the discussion remains open regarding the methods for both equations.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the Lambert W function and its relevance to the solution of the second differential equation, but there is uncertainty about its application and the exact relationship to the derived forms. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps or assumptions involved in the transformations.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in differential equations, particularly those studying ordinary differential equations (O.D.E.s) or exploring advanced mathematical functions like the Lambert W function, may find this discussion relevant.

ShayanJ
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Could somebody help me to solve this really tough differential equations?

\left( {x}{y} \sqrt{{x}^{2} - {y}^{2}}+{x} \right){y'}={y}-{x}^{2} \sqrt{{x}^{2}-{y}^{2}}

Another tough one.I tried MATLAB which gave me sth about lambertW function which I haven't heard about before.Is there an easier answer?

\left( {x}^{2}-{y} \right){y'}+{x}=0

thanks
 
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really it's tough enough to confuse my mind!
somebody answer these 2 questions please
Thanks
 
I didn't think these two are this hard that I don't get the answer after writing this thread.
These are just two exersises of a textbook on O.D.E.s
You don't have even a little tip?
 
Ok... first of all, one should not post textbook exercises in this section. Anyway, i will show how the lambertW funtion appears from the second DE:

(x^2-y)y'+x=0

Using the substituition:

u=x^2-y

we get:

y=x^2-u and y'=2x-u'.

So, the DE becomes:

u(2x-u')+x=0

Isolating u', we get:

u'=\frac{(2u+1)x}{u}

Writing u' as du/dx and separating the variables:

\left[ \frac{u}{2u+1} \right] du = x dx

Integrating both sides gives:

\int \frac{u du}{2u+1} = \frac{x^2}{2}+c

The substituition v=2u+1 is useful, and gives:

\int \frac{1}{4} \left[ 1-\frac{1}{v} \right] dv = \frac{x^2}{2}+c

Which, integrated, leads to:

v - ln(v)=2x^2+4c

Ok... now we have to isolate v in this equation. And this is where the lambertW function appears. The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function" function W(x) is defined as the function that satisfies this equation:

x=W(x)e^{W(x)}

Taking logarithms, we get:

ln(x) = ln[W(x)] + W(x)

And this resembles very much the function v (which is actually v(x)) we got when solving the DE. I can't say that v(x)=W(x) because we have the - sign instead the + sign. Anyway, I am pretty sure the function v(x) is related to the lambertW function, as you mentioned that MATLAB gave it as a possible solution.

I didnt try to solve the first equation. But probably there is some substituition like the one i did that can make it a bit easier to solve.
 
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